Shooting (Hansard, 14 December 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty)
My Lords, as the Labour Party manifesto has made clear, we have no intention whatever of placing restrictions on the sport of shooting. We work closely with the organisations that represent shooting and encourage their efforts at self-regulation. We support the development of voluntary codes of conduct, such as the code of good shooting practice.

§ Lord Hogg of Cumbernauld
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Would he agree that shooting and shooting estates form an important part of the rural economy in many parts of the country and that it is important that the Government should reiterate their opposition to any restriction on shooting and, for that matter, fishing in the forthcoming general election? Will he join me in condemning organisations that wish to ban shooting and fishing, to the detriment of work people in the countryside?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, on the first part of my noble friend's question, I must say that the Government recognise the importance of shooting. I think I said much the same thing at some point last week. We should support shooting-based enterprises and estates because they bring income, jobs and prosperity to relatively remote parts of the country. As to the next Labour Party manifesto, I see no reason why our long-standing position on shooting, which I enunciated yet again today and have set out many times in recent debates, should not stand, but I am no longer in charge of writing the manifesto.

§ Earl Peel
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Labour Animal Welfare Society is now switching its efforts to shooting? Its website states: Hunting down—shooting to go". Will the Minister give an assurance that he will robustly defend shooting against such organisations? To that effect, may I suggest that he discusses the matter with the vice-chair of the Labour Animal Welfare Society, who is no less a person than the noble Baroness, Lady Gale?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, every organisation and individual, whether a Member of this House or not, or a member of my party or the noble Earl's party, has a right to an opinion. I hope that we do not take away from that. I have made the Government's position on this clear on numerous occasions, and I do so again today.

§ Earl Ferrers
My Lords, does the Minister realise what pleasure his Answer has given and will give? I speak as one who has been involved with the countryside, but the particular pleasure is that, for once, the Government have avoided the temptation of getting involved in regulating something else. Would the Minister not agree that, if the Government go on as they have gone on, before long we will have to get a licence to blow our nose?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I briefly thought that this was a positive and supportive statement from the noble Earl and was about to respond accordingly. I shall ignore the second part of his question and accept his commendation of the Government's position in the first part.

§ Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House the essential difference in terms of cruelty and liberty between hunting on the one hand and shooting and fishing on the other?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, hunting has been a matter of political debate for many decades. The issue needed to be resolved, and it has now been resolved. There has never been a significant move to ban fishing, certainly not in the Labour Party. The same applies to shooting.
We have had the arguments about cruelty. The relative cruelty of hunting with hounds and shooting foxes has been debated in the Chamber for more hours than I care to remember, and I do not think that I can add anything to the wisdom already expressed on that matter.

§ Lord Palmer
My Lords, can the Minister give the House some assurance that the Home Office has no plans to tighten up the already very strict laws on obtaining a shotgun licence or, indeed, renewing a licence?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, the noble Lord will know that the Home Office is consulting on gun law. However, that relates to guns that may be used for criminal or other nefarious purposes, not for the sport of shooting.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
My Lords, does the Minister agree that one of the differences between shooting and hunting is that many farmers make a far larger income from keeping much of their land for shooting, which also provides many conservation benefits?

§ Lord Whitty
Yes, my Lords, that is one of the significant social differences. Whatever views farmers hold on hunting with hounds, they do not receive much income from it.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, the Minister said that the Government had no plans to introduce any restrictions on shooting. What confidence does he have that his Back-Benchers in another place can be controlled should they want to go down that road? 1176 Secondly, will the Government give a steer when the animal welfare legislation comes into being? Some fear that that will be yet another opportunity for the issue to be raised.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I have no doubt that it will be raised again. Many issues are raised again, but they are not government policy. The Government have stated the position on shooting in their manifesto, and Labour MPs are bound by that manifesto.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the Minister sure of that?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, Labour MPs are elected on the basis of that manifesto. Labour Party discipline which, as the noble Lord knows, is pretty profound on such matters, will be maintained. Our clear manifesto commitment was to allow a free vote on fox hunting, and that was carried out to the letter.