Deepcut Army Barracks

HL Deb 09 December 2004 vol 667 cc981-2

11.24 a.m.

Lord Ashley of Stoke asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will reconsider the procedures for investigating the allegations concerning events at the Deepcut army barracks.

Baroness Crawley

My Lords, it is a civil police responsibility to investigate deaths of military personnel at military establishments in the United Kingdom. Surrey Police has investigated the four deaths at Deepcut. A number of allegations of mistreatment were recorded by Surrey Police during its investigation and these have been passed to the Army. Investigative action in respect of these allegations requires the consent of the individuals concerned. Such consent has been received in two cases, which are now with the Royal Military Police.

Lord Ashley of Stoke

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that response. Is she aware that, although the deaths are relevant, the Question is about more than the deaths; it is about the treatment of soldiers generally at Deepcut? Is she further aware that by setting up this seventh, limited, inquiry and refusing, yet again, a public inquiry, the Government are digging a deeper hole for themselves and compounding the damage already caused to soldiers, their families and the Army itself? It is simply not possible to resolve the appalling problems of four deaths in Deepcut and repeated allegations of bullying, brutality, sexual abuse and torture without a public inquiry. With a public inquiry, the end of this saga could be in sight. Without a public inquiry, we will have endless bitterness, anger and frustration.

Baroness Crawley

My Lords, the Government are not so far convinced that a public inquiry will achieve additional information to that already achieved through all the various police, Army and coroner investigations and inquiries. They have already reported. However, as my noble friend said in his supplementary question, a further review by a fully independent figure was announced by the Minister of State for the Armed Forces in the House of Commons. The Government are not complacent on these matters.

Lord Garden

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that this, the seventh inquiry that the Ministry of Defence has put together, will not satisfy people given the scale and nature of the allegations that are being made? Can the Minister assure the House that, following the Adjutant-General's concerns, sufficient resources are now being given to the Army Training and Recruiting Agency so that it can provide adequate levels of supervision at all establishments where there are young trainees?

Baroness Crawley

My Lords, continual investment is being made in training establishments. As I have said, the Government are not complacent about reports of bullying and harassment. They take the reports extremely seriously and investigate all substantive allegations. The inquiry is continuing and will report in March. The Government have announced an independent inspection of all Armed Forces training establishments, including initial training and welfare. For instance, 12 inspectors from the Adult Learning Inspectorate have been at Deepcut for eight days in the past fortnight.

Lord Laming

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the reports of how these young men have been allegedly treated is a source of deep and widespread concern? Although the House, no doubt, will be willing to accept what the Minister says about the lack of complacency, does she understand that that view is not widely held in the country?

Baroness Crawley

My Lords, I understand and the Government understand and sympathise deeply with the desire of the families of the soldiers who have died—and of any young men and women in our Armed Forces who are being bullied, harassed or feel intimated—to get at the full truth. That is why we have been so thorough in all the investigations. Taking the police investigation as one example, 900 witnesses have given 1,500 witness statements. That is only one of these investigations. We will continue until we have got at the truth.

Lord Ashley of Stoke

My Lords, if, as my noble friend says, we want to get the full truth, what is the real reason for the Government refusing a public inquiry?

Baroness Crawley

My Lords, as I have said, Ministers are not, so far, convinced that a public inquiry will achieve anything additional to the investigations that have reported, are reporting or will report next year.