HL Deb 20 November 2003 vol 654 cc2046-8

11.22 a.m.

Lord Dubs

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is their estimate of the number of motorists driving while (a) uninsured and (b) without a road fund disc; and how many convictions for each offence there were in the most recent 12-month period.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, estimates from the insurance industry are that there about 1.25 million motorists driving while uninsured. There were 266, 750 convictions for driving while uninsured in 2001, the latest year for which figures are available. The Government estimate that 1.76 million vehicles evaded vehicle excise duty in 2002. In 2002–3, DVLA campaigns and other activity resulted in 265, 000 convictions, 402, 000 out-of-court settlements, and 152, 000 induced relicensings.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that that is law breaking on a pretty massive scale? Have the Government any proposals to tackle the problem without necessarily over-burdening the police yet more—in other words, by using traffic wardens? Would it be helpful to consider making it obligatory for drivers to have on their motor cars evidence that they are properly insured, next to their road fund licence disc?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, I have indicated, both by the figures that I quoted for convictions and prosecutions over the past year and by the regulations introduced last Friday as part of a package, that the Government are very serious about cracking down on the issue of law breaking. I emphasise to my noble friend that which would be widely appreciated. The attractive feature of the windscreen insurance disc is that it would be visible to any investigating authority. The disadvantage is obvious: it is the driver who is insured, not the vehicle. The problem is that we would not be able to establish a disc that could cover every conceivable driver of every car.

Viscount Tenby

My Lords, does the Minister agree that driving without insurance is particularly serious and could attract a custodial sentence—although, unfortunately, the Bench in my experience does not exercise that right often enough? Will the Minister tell me whether the Government have any plans for alternative sanctions—for example, the seizure of the car in question?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the noble Viscount is right that an uninsured driver is committing a serious offence. The penalty for that offence is very serious, too. The wider public, including magistrates, are increasingly aware that the Government are determined to crack down on the offence. Therefore, we are seeing increased prosecution, which I have no doubt will lead to increased sentences more commensurate with the crime that the noble Viscount mentioned.

More generally, the Government are concerned about the question of detection. It will be the case that, via the motor industry database, which includes all insured drivers, the linkage with the police will give the opportunity for the police to be able to identify whether a car has insurance for the driver. The difficulty is obvious—that the insurance may cover only one or two drivers with regard to the vehicle.

Lord Faulkner of Worcester

My Lords—

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords—

Lord Jacobs

My Lords—

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos)

My Lords, there is plenty of time. I suggest that we hear from the Liberal Democrats, from the Conservative Benches, then from these Benches.

Lord Jacobs

My Lords, does the Minister agree that those cars without a road tax fund licence probably, in the main, also do not have garages, so they are easily observable in the street? Will he consider a scheme that would solve the problem—to have a national telephone line that members of the public could phone and could advise about cars that were on the street without exhibiting a road fund licence? If the cars were then to be towed away, I venture to suggest that, within a matter of months if not weeks, there would be few unlicensed cars on the road.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the noble Lord ought not to underestimate the degree of activity that obtains along exactly those lines. Rightly, members of the public feel aggrieved when they see cars parked on the public highway without the appropriate tax disc and, therefore, make the appropriate complaints. Those are followed up to a degree and cars are on occasion towed away and penalties inflicted. However, as we shall emphasise in a major publicity campaign, we are rather more concerned to express to the overwhelmingly law-abiding public that we intend to crack down on that offence. That should have the effect of increasing the numbers who ensure that their cars are licensed.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, how does the Minister define "crack down" or "success"? Crack down does not mean to me letting 1.25 million people get away with being uninsured.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, that is exactly right. The noble Earl will have recognised from my Answer that I said how many prosecutions had been sought with regard to the issue. The problem is acute, and that is why we have introduced new regulations to make compliance more effective and why we are serious about the issue.

The Earl of Erroll

My Lords, how about having a minimum third-party insurance paid up for the vehicle at the same time as the road fund licence? The road fund licence is merely a tax, which is rarely applied to the benefit of motorists, whereas third-party insurance would be very much to the benefit of the general public and motorists.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, we are in constant talks with the insurance industry about the situation. It is important that any scheme that is introduced does not increase insurance costs for the average law-abiding motorist.