Rural Delivery Review (Hansard, 13 November 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty)
My Lords, the report of my noble friend Lord Haskins was published on Tuesday. It recommended significant and wide-ranging changes to modernise the way in which government delivers rural policy. The Secretary of State's Statement in the House of Commons set out the Government's initial response. Her first priorities are immediately to review rural funding schemes and to set up an integrated agency to conserve and improve the natural environment. The Government will publish a practical implementation plan in the spring.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, what is the Minister's response to the remarks yesterday of the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, at the crops conference at which I spoke? He said: Defra will fall flat on its face when it tries to cope with CAP reform if it does not respond"— 1566 that is, to his report. Secondly, the Minister said that the department will have a review and will be modernised, but that will not happen until next year. What urgent action will the Government take to address the description of the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, of Defra's current structure as, a dog's dinner of the highest order"?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, we asked the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, to look at the delivery of the policy and the mechanisms for delivery. Defra's inherited structure, particularly from MAFF, has long been recognised as in need of serious reform. But we should also look at each of the agencies and NDPBs involved in delivery and, as the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, said, bring delivery further down the line so that the regions and, to some extent, local authorities bring the action closer to rural businesses and farmers. That will take time, but we need to do it in parallel with the delivery of the change in the common agricultural policy, whose implementation starts at the beginning of 2005. We intend to clarify by then the proposed structure and to deliver the outcome of CAP reform in that way.

§ Earl Peel
My Lords, does the Minister not agree with me that, if the Government are to remain consistent with their previous responses to other reports produced by the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, they have only option: to disregard completely this new tome from the noble Lord?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I am not clear what report the noble Earl attempts to draw to our attention. We have had very effective reports from my noble friend Lord Haskins, particularly on recovery from foot and mouth disease, much of which was implemented and has guided government policy. That will also be the case with this report. We accept the broad principles of the report. We will need to sort out some details. But the most important thing is to find the best means of delivery for the best policy. Those two aspects need to be taken in parallel.

§ The Lord Bishop of Hereford
My Lords, although there are convincing arguments in the report about the devolution of the delivery of many rural services to a more local level, can the Minister assure us that there will be proper parliamentary debate before any firm changes are established? Is he aware of the strong need to maintain the autonomy and the expertise of English Nature, and to give a great deal of training to RDAs if they are to take over, with their present strong urban bias, the delivery of rural services?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, devolution of responsibility will need to be accompanied by an assurance that we have the correct staff in place with the correct orientation, towards rural business in particular. On English Nature, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State made clear that we will continue to rely heavily on independent advice from the new agency proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Haskins. General parliamentary debate is not a matter for me.
1567 However, if we are to change the status of English Nature and other agencies, there will be legislative implications, which, I am sure, will receive thorough consideration by this House.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, there is an overdue need for the rationalisation of the plethora of local schemes and initiatives in the countryside. However, if responsibility for delivery is transferred from the centre to local authorities and the RDAs, will they have the necessary expertise? The existing agencies have that expertise at ground level. Can we ensure that it will survive after the changes are implemented?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, there is substantial expertise at the centre, both in the department and the agencies. The noble Lord, Lord Haskins, proposed that we bring those together and move them closer to where rural businesses operate and farming is carried out, so many of the same people will be involved and undoubtedly that expertise will be retained.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
My Lords, there is no doubt that local authorities, as democratically elected bodies, are in a very good position to receive information from communities and to deliver services. However, can the Minister assure me that in this case the Government will not do their usual trick of asking local authorities to deliver an awful lot more with no extra money?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, that is not a correct description of providing greater powers to local authorities to deliver closer to where enterprises operate. If significant responsibilities for delivering schemes are devolved to local authorities, or indeed to RDAs, we will ensure that the resources go with them.

§ Lord Tanlaw
My Lords, what role will broadband play in delivering his department's services to small businesses, post offices, farmers and schools? I have read the report— cursorily, only twice—and can see no reference to easy broadband access for any of the units that would require its services.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, it is to be hoped that discussions on the changes to the CAP, for example, can be delivered via broadband to the central systems. We therefore need to provide farmers with the means to deal with detailed information, such as mapping, that can be delivered only through broadband. My colleagues in the DTI have committed themselves to ensuring that we get broadband to rural areas so that farmers and other rural businesses can take advantage of it.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, to what knowledge was the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, privy that was not available to Ministers when they created that dog's dinner, Defra?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, in the creation of government departments, we 1568 are often required to accept an inheritance that has had its own ethos and status for many years. Under all governments MAFF had operated in a certain way. There may have been an era when that was the appropriate way, but it was more akin to a Stalinist production ministry than to a department trying to engage the enterprise and creativity of our agricultural sector to meet the economic and environmental needs of the modern age. We had to live with that and to change it; we need to change it further. The insights of the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, have been very helpful in pointing the way.