§ 3 p.m.
§ Lord Aveburyasked Her Majesty's Government:
What steps they are taking, in conjunction with other members of the international community, to avert the resumption of hostilities in Aceh, and what assurances they have been given by the Indonesian Government that arms and military equipment supplied by the United Kingdom will not be used in any military operations that may be conducted in Aceh.
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, the British Government, together with our EU partners, the United States and the World Bank, have urged the Indonesian Government and the Free Aceh Movement—the GAM—to resume negotiations. We 830 regret that martial law has been declared in Aceh. The Indonesian Government have confirmed that Hawk aircraft were used on the first day of action in Aceh, but they have given assurances that they were not used offensively. We are considering that response.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, Britain was represented, through the European Union, at the Tokyo meeting last weekend, at which attempts were made to salvage the cessation of hostilities agreement. Can the Minister say whether any concessions were made there by either side? How far apart were they at the end of the process? Would it not be useful to know, without attempting to apportion blame, what was the sequence of negotiations that led to the final breakdown?
Considering that there is a risk of overwhelming human catastrophe in Aceh and the fact that the UN Secretary-General has made a plea that peace should be restored, will the Government consider referring the matter to the UN Security Council and calling on the council to pass an embargo on the supply of weapons to either side? Spares for the Hawks that the Minister mentioned and the Scorpions that, we understand, are being transferred to Aceh should be withheld until peace is restored.
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, the reasons for the breakdown in the discussions that the noble Lord mentioned are difficult to disentangle. It looks as though, to some extent, both sides were not sufficiently committed, with regard to some of their own interests, to seeing a peaceful solution go forward. I am unable to go into any further detail than that at the moment. Perhaps, it is a subject for discussion at a future date.
The noble Lord asked about weapons. We are considering the right response in the light of what has happened over the past few days. I hope that the noble Lord will understand that even as I left the Foreign Office late this morning more information was coming in about the incident, which I know has not only caused concern to the noble Lord but has prompted further comment elsewhere. Further information is arriving from our post about what really happened, and that information is being analysed at the moment.
§ Lord Howell of GuildfordMy Lords, do we know of any connection between the Free Aceh movement—GAM—and terrorist organisations? It seems to be intent on burning schools. If there is evidence of terrorist links, ought we not to be a little more understanding of the need for the Indonesian authorities to try to keep their country together? Should we not indicate that we realise that they need somehow to restore law and order there?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, we do not need to know that there are terrorist links. The noble Lord may be referring to the wider question of terrorist organisations elsewhere.
831 If there is terrorism, it is of itself bound to be a reason for any government to want to ensure the security of their people. The noble Lord will know that there are many different views about the nature of the GAM. As is so often the case, there are those who consider it to be a group of people who legitimately want freedom for Aceh from Indonesia, and there are those who consider that its activities go beyond that into some activities that others would describe as terrorist activities.
§ Viscount WaverleyMy Lords, more specifically, does self-determination supersede territorial integrity, in the Government's view?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, we acknowledge the territorial integrity. But, to take another example, the United Kingdom and the United Nations never recognised the sovereignty claim to East Timor. This is a different question. After Indonesia declared its independence in 1949, Aceh became part of that country. Eight years later, Aceh began to fight against the central government and, as we know, there has been a GAM seeking an independent state since 1976.
Questions of self-determination arise in a variety of historical contexts. There are differences in the way in which Indonesia has operated here historically and the historical claim that it has, as compared with the recent example of East Timor, which may still be in your Lordships' minds.