Franco-British Relations (Hansard, 26 March 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Amos)
My Lords, we continue to work closely with France on a range of important issues. However, there are issues on which we disagree on tactics, for example Iraq. But such disagreements do not define our relationship with France.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, I am grateful for that encouraging reply. I declare a family interest in that my daughter is married to a French citizen and that they and their three children are residents of France. Is the Minister aware of how welcome the statement made by my noble and learned friend the Lord Privy Seal in exchanges on the Statement on Monday was when he said: Despite the differences that we have had with our allies—we should not forget that the French Government have been our allies for many decades—we must work together, not only in the European context but in humanitarian relief as well"—[Official Report, 24/3/03; col. 492.]? Does she agree that, if we are to make a reality of the Prime Minister's objective of putting Britain at the heart of Europe, the demonising of France, its president and its people must come to an end and that Ministers should express their distaste for the kind of xenophobic rubbish that one reads in some tabloid newspapers?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, my noble friend will expect me to agree with the Lord Privy Seal. It is important to say that one disagreement does not define the UK/France relationship. It is a close relationship that goes back a long way and disagreements have been a part of it. It is important to remind the House that we continue to work together on a range of important issues—immigration, education, defence—and we continue to enjoy close commercial, cultural and sporting ties. I do not believe that the overall strength of our bilateral relations will be affected by our differences on Iraq. Those differences have to be discussed and sorted out, but we look forward to celebrating the closeness of our relationship in the entente cordiale celebrations next year.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, would one way to achieve an improvement in relations be to encourage British people to drink more wine and to eat more cheese? That would not be a hardship.

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I agree that drinking more wine and eating more cheese would not be a 800 hardship. However, I believe that my colleagues in the Department of Health may have something to say about the quantities of wine that we imbibe and the amount of cheese that we eat.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords—

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords—

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, there is plenty of time. Perhaps my noble friend Lord Strabolgi should speak next as he frequently goes to La Coupole for his lunch.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, I declare an interest as for many years I was a former member of the Franco-British Council. Will the Government continue to encourage and to finance the Franco-British Council, which is financed by both governments, as it encourages and fosters good relations between Britain and France and carries out important work?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend that the Franco-British Council carries out important work. Of course we want to see that work continue. The support given to the council by the British and the French Governments will continue.

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, can the Minister assure the House that one of the issues on which we continue to work closely with France, and I hope the entire European Union, is that of the Middle East and the Arab/Israel problem? In that context, is she aware of a report in the Financial Times this morning that part of the package that President Bush has sought from Congress includes 1 billion dollars towards further military aid to Israel?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I can confirm that we continue to work on the wider Middle East peace process. The noble Lord will know that the European Union as a whole has played an important role in that, being part of the quartet and it was involved in helping to draft the road map. I am also aware of the announcement that was made by President Bush in respect of the 1 billion dollars.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in the current circumstances neither Britain nor France is well served by such domestic written press? Both the French and the British press have not helped the situation. Can she also tell the House how closely the British and the French Governments are working together on policies in regard to Africa? Both states have troops on the ground in the messy, overlapping trans-national conflicts in West Africa. Are we co-ordinating closely in those conflicts?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we continue to work closely with France on 801 a range of issues in Africa. They include co-operation not only in conflict resolution—we both support ECOWAS who have put troops on the ground in Côte d'Ivoire—but we are also working together in Sierra Leone, in Liberia and in the Great Lakes. We have worked together in the UN on a number of those issues. Both the UK and France remain committed to NePAD and to the commitments that we made through the G8 to the G8 Africa action plan, and I am working closely with my French counterpart on that. The House may be aware that we have been in discussions with the French about the possibility of co-location in some countries in Africa—for example, in Francophone Africa where the French have a wider spread than we do—and we co-locate in Freetown. Only last week senior officials from the UK and France met and agreed the continued importance of Franco-British co-operation in Africa.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, while it is obvious that there can be no European future without France, it is equally obvious that the Franco-German agenda is bound to be less dominant in the future as we move forward in the reform of the European system? It will also be less dominant in the mending of transatlantic relations between America and the EU than in the past. Will she ensure that the policy-makers in the Government grasp the opportunities offered now by the new Europe and its wish to develop in different directions? Will she also ensure that we do not revert to the habitual role in some parts of the policy-making machine of just waiting to respond to whatever comes from Paris and allowing France to take all the initiatives?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I do not agree with the last point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howell, that the policy initiatives all come from Paris. We now have complicated and complex changing alliances. We are seeing the enlargement of the European Union. In the context of the discussion on the convention, a paper was put forward by the French and by the Germans. All of that contributes to a wider debate about the future of Europe and the relationship between the European Union and the United States. All of those things need to happen. Such conversations and discussions will continue. The British position is absolutely clear: we want to see a strong Europe—a strong European Union with a good partnership with the United States.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, although we have had the Hundred Years War with France and other wars, in Scotland we have 802 had the Auld Alliance and there have been much longer periods of friendship between our two nations? What are friends for if sometimes we cannot disagree?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Baroness that the strength of friendship means that it is much easier to have disagreements and to deal with them.

§ Lord Brookman
My Lords, on everyone's mind will be the eventual restructuring of Iraq. To what extent are constructive discussions ongoing with France to that end?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, the House will be aware that with regard to reconstruction in Iraq we seek a further Security Council resolution. Our objective is to achieve the widest possible coalition of support under UN auspices, so we shall work closely with the French and with other Security Council partners on the issue. That is absolutely vital. Noble Lords will know that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is now on his way to the United States to discuss with the Administration the reconstruction efforts.

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, will the Minister tell the House whether the Government are aware of any pressure brought to bear by France on Turkey as to the United States transfer of troops through Turkey to northern Iraq, particularly in the light of Turkey's application to join the EU?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I am certainly not aware of any such pressure. I am happy to take that question back and to write to the noble Lord if I can add anything.

§ Lord Davies of Coity
My Lords, the Question refers quite specifically to how Her Majesty's Government intend to improve relationships with the Government and the people of France. Can the Minister advise the House as to the extent to which the French Government and the people of France intend to improve relationships with Britain?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, it would be slightly difficult for me to answer on behalf of the French Government and the French people, although I can hear my noble friend behind me saying "Go on".
In any relationship or partnership things have to be two-way. We should not be able to have discussions with our French counterparts if they were not prepared to have those discussions with us. I can assure the House that we are engaged in discussions with our French colleagues on a whole range of issues. I repeat: although the disagreement on Iraq runs deep, there are a number of different areas— immigration, education and defence. The noble Lord may not know that after the Franco-British summit a proposal was submitted on defence. I am happy to write to the noble Lord about it.

§ The Lord Bishop of Hereford
My Lords, perhaps we may briefly refer to the gastronomic theme. Is the 803 Minister aware, in view of the mention of the fondness of the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, for lunch at La Coupole, that that particular restaurant has an Anglophile menu? The last time I lunched there, on the menu was "Welsh rabbit", which was excellent. When I inquired of the waiter where the cheese came from, he was unable to answer. But, after a foray into the kitchen, he returned, beaming all over his face, with the news, "C 'est le Cheddar".

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, it would be impossible to say anything that would top what the right reverend Prelate has said.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, will the Minister say whether the French are fully onside with us on the need for regime change in Harare?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, first, it is not British policy to have regime change in Harare. We have consistently said that we want to see a return to the rule of law, the end of harassment, and that one way to achieve that would be to have free and fair elections in Zimbabwe. There were not free and fair presidential elections last year. It is for the people of Zimbabwe to decide who they want to lead their country.