Regional Assemblies (Hansard, 20 March 2003)

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister asked for responses by 3rd March from the South East and the other English regions outside London on the level of interest in holding a referendum about an elected regional assembly. We are now evaluating the responses. The soundings exercise did not ask whether people were in favour of an elected regional assembly. That will be the question asked in any referendum on the issue.

§ Lord Renton of Mount Harry
My Lords, perhaps I may help the noble Lord in the Answer to my Question. A recent poll by Mori showed that in the South and South East of England fewer people were in support of a referendum on a regional assembly than were in favour of a referendum on elected Peers—a rather odd choice perhaps. It also showed that only 27 per cent of those in the south of England knew in which region they were located; the rest did not know.
On that basis, does the Minister agree that the idea of an elected regional assembly in the South or South East of England, where we have no Newcastle, no Manchester and no obvious city, is based far more on ideology than on practicality? Does he also agree that the more people hear about a regional assembly there, the less they like it because they see it as meaning more remoteness from governmental decision, a higher council tax and a further reorganisation of local authorities, which will lead to a requirement for more money?

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, there is a fundamental misconception in what the noble Lord says. There will be no elected regional assemblies unless the people choose to have them. The assemblies will not be foisted upon them. Thus far, we have spent nine hours, give or take an hour, on Clause 1 of the Regional Assemblies (Preparations) Bill. The new aspect raised by the noble Lord would make our debates even more scintillating than they have been so far, and I hope that he will join us later today.

§ Baroness Scott of Needham Market
My Lords, will the noble Lord give the House more detail of exactly what, in the view of the Secretary of State, will constitute "evidence", either of support or otherwise? Given that the exact powers and functions of the assemblies have not yet been decided, will he at least take on board that it is rather difficult to judge the level of support?

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, the support in question relates to soundings as to whether there should be a 380 referendum and not whether there should be an assembly. As we have made clear repeatedly, if we reached the point of holding a referendum, first, the boundary review would have to have taken place and, secondly, each elector or each household in a region would have received a document setting out the powers of the assembly. In any event, although we cannot commit to it firmly at present, we hope that the main draft Bill will be published so that people will know the consequences of their votes.

§ Lord Waddington
My Lords, the noble Lord is by now well aware that the North West Regional Assembly, while campaigning illegally to become an elected body, has been asserting, contrary to fact, that a wide body of opinion is in favour of an elected regional assembly in the North West. Will he ensure that the statements of such self-serving bodies are not taken into account in the soundings exercise but are put in the dustbin where they belong?

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister will take these matters into account and make a judgment as to whether there should be a referendum—that is, whether a boundary review should take place first as that will take a considerable amount of time—only after the paving Bill has received Royal Assent. The factors involved in the soundings review relate to the referendum and not to the assembly itself, as we have made clear repeatedly. When my right honourable friend makes a judgment, he will give to Parliament the evidence and the facts on which he bases that judgment.

§ Lord Morgan
My Lords, will my noble friend observe the support expressed by many Conservative councillors on Buckinghamshire County Council for the Government's proposals? That may suggest that Conservatives in southern England are not quite so resistant to change as some of the speeches in the debate on the Bill suggest.

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, that is a new one on me. So far, during the course of our debates, no one has mentioned the support from the Conservatives in Buckinghamshire.

§ Lord Burnham
My Lords, as a resident of Buckinghamshire, I have seen no evidence whatever of it.

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, I am just the Minister who is presenting to this House the Bill that has already been through another place. It is not possible to know every nuance of the battles that are clearly going on around the country in relation to the Bill. However, the conclusion to be drawn from this morning's debate is that there is so much interest in the matter that people cannot rightly claim no one knows about the proposal.

§ Lord Lamont of Lerwick
My Lords, why does the Minister say that there will be no regional assemblies 381 unless the people so decide and unless there is a referendum? Why was that Answer not given to my noble friend Lord Lawson on the subject of the Convention on the Future of Europe?

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, the White Paper, Your Region, Your Choice, made the position clear. There is no unity in the country on this matter. The regions are different and therefore the regions should have the choice. The Bill simply facilitates the opportunity for that. That is what the soundings exercise is all about. A decision will be made in due course and will be presented to Parliament for approval.

§ Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
My Lords—

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords—

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I believe that we should hear from my noble friend Lord Brooke.

§ Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
My Lords, does the Minister share the view that, if we have such a great desire to hold referendums, we should involve the people and that, similarly, we should exercise the same view in relation to elections to this House?

§ Lord Rooker
My Lords, at present, as one of the newest Members of this House, I am staggered that I am on the receiving end of all these manifestos for an election which I thought had nothing to do with me. Therefore, I shall certainly not go down that road.

§ Baroness Hanham
My Lords—

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, we must move on now.