HL Deb 06 March 2003 vol 645 cc965-8

3.25 p.m.

Lord Hanningfield

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will supply the public with basic information on measures they should take to assist themselves and others before the arrival of the emergency services at the scene of a chemical or biological attack.

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, the Government do not currently issue in advance detailed guidance to the public on measures that they might take if they become victims of a chemical or biological attack.

The response to chemical or biological incidents, accidental or otherwise, depends on a number of factors. The emergency services are best placed to decide the appropriate response, taking into account the relevant factors. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary, in publishing his Statement on Monday 3rd March, and in his moving of the order renewing Part 4 of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act, made it clear that the Government would establish a dedicated website. Whatever information is useful to the public will be posted on it.

The Government and emergency services will, of course, make available immediate information and advice in the event of a discernible threat or the carrying out of such a threat in the United Kingdom.

Lord Hanningfield

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. The whole question has had a lot of national media attention this week. As the leader of a large local authority adjacent to London, I ask whether he will make more resources available to local government. He talked about the emergency services, but local government will be the main emergency service. We are told that we might have to expect 20,000 people an hour corning out of London, but no provision or plan has been made for that. Although I do not want to be alarmist, we need to know more about what might happen. Will the Minister give us more information?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, it is extremely important not to be alarmist and for people simply to be alert. The message from central government is that to give detailed advice on a particular sort of threat is both misleading and unhelpful. The right course is to wait and see what the immediate threat might he under any circumstances, and then take advice from the emergency services. The more detailed advice one gives in a vacuum, the more problems one causes.

Lord Tope

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the study published this week by London First and the London Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which showed that 80 per cent of small and medium-sized businesses had no contingency plans for a terrorist attack or mass evacuation" Do the Government intend to take any action in that respect?

Lord Falconer of Thorolon

My Lords, I repeat that a terrorist attack could mean a variety of things. It is critical to be alert but not alarmed, and to be clear to take advice from the emergency services whenever there is an immediate threat or a threat that matures. Simply to try to cover every possible eventuality would lead to confusion and difficulty when the problem arises.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, after the hurricane, all the Whitehall telephone exchanges were out of order, something that never happened during the Blitz? Is he sure that steps have been taken to see that that does not happen again?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, I was not aware that in 1987 all the Whitehall exchanges went down. I know that the noble Baroness would have been, because she was a Minister at the time and would have been unable to phone friends and colleagues. Communication is utterly vital in relation to an emergency, and I very much hope—I am sure—that communications have been focused on.

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

My Lords, is my noble and learned friend aware that many people in America are stockpiling bottled water and food reserves in their homes? What does he say about that? What advice would he give to someone such as myself who might ask whether they should do the same?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, people should not stockpile at the moment. There is no point in taking such measures. The right course is to be alert, continue as before, and accept the advice of the emergency services when a discernible threat emerges or occurs.

Lord Roberts of Conwy

My Lords, in view of what the noble and learned Lord said about being alarmist, will he put into perspective the proposed London exercise on a massive scale, which we have read about in the press in the past few days?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, the right course for any organisation in central or local government is to be prepared but not to identify or seek to guard against a particular kind of threat when we do not know the precise detail of what may happen. It is right that we should be prepared and should have tried out our services against the possibility of an incident occurring but we should not be alarmist. We should focus on continuing as before and on being willing to take the advice of the emergency services.

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts

My Lords, in the light of the importance that the Government are now giving to civil defence, can the Minister tell the House, first, how many times the senior government committee responsible for this policy area—the Ministerial Group on Protective and Preventative Security, chaired by the Home Secretary—has met? Secondly, how many of the 10 Ministers on the committee have attended each meeting? Thirdly, how often is it expected to meet in the future?

Does the Minister understand that if the Government refuse to answer those simple and innocuous questions on the slight fig leaf of Exemption 2 of the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information, the public will be entitled to believe that the Government do not give real attention to this important area?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, the public would not be right to think that we do not give the appropriate attention to that issue. I cannot tell the House the precise number of times the committee meets, but it meets as often as is necessary. This is a very high priority for the Government.