§ Lord Burnhamasked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether ships chartered by the Ministry of Defence to transport British military forces to the Gulf will be re-flagged to the Red Ensign; and whether they will be required to operate with, as a minimum, a British master.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach)My Lords, UK Armed Forces personnel are being transported to the Gulf either by air or on Royal Navy ships. Any decision to re-flag ships chartered to transport cargo to the Gulf is given careful consideration. Factors informing any decision include the planned use of the ship; the requirement to carry military escorts and the current nationality of the flag state. Four of the ships chartered for the current operation have been re-flagged to the Red Ensign. The nationality of crews is a matter for the ships' owners.
§ Lord BurnhamMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, which to some degree is satisfactory. Would it be possible to re-flag these ships to the Blue Ensign as fleet auxiliaries? As regards ships other than the four to which he referred, are the contracts tight enough to prevent their national owners insisting that they take part in an operation not in accordance with the wishes of Her Majesty's Government?
Finally, will the Minister reply to the second half of my Question?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, the contracts with the owners of the ships are sufficiently tight. The difficulty is that there has not been time to re-flag the ships under the Red Ensign. Where we have done so, it has been crucial; where we have not, it has not been crucial.
I hoped that I had answered the second part of the noble Lord's Question when I said that the nationality of crews is a matter for the ships' owners. In other words, they are not required to have at minimum a British master.
§ Lord RedesdaleMy Lords, is the Minister satisfied that the security of these ships is being taken seriously, considering that they will have to travel through the Suez Canal and past Yemen and that ships have previously been attacked off the coast of Yemen?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, will not expect me to go into details. 596 However, I can tell him that a number of important security measures are in place to protect chartered vessels, their crews and the cargo, including but not limited to, first, the careful routing of the ships, to which his question has relevance; naval shipping providing protection where deemed necessary; and embarkation of military protection parties. On all those ships, there are always on hoard UK military escorts.
Lord BerkeleyMy Lords, am I correct in my understanding of my noble friend's Answer; that it would theoretically be possible for these ships to he crewed and mastered by Iraqis? Surely that would not be sensible.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, does not the Red Ensign designation confer the entitlement to have armaments on deck and to man them, as was the case in 1939?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, I must confess that I do not know the answer to the noble Lord's question relating to 1939, but I promise that I will find out and write to him. I understand that the equipment on the deck of these ships is not on display.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, the noble Lord used the word "crucial". Under what circumstances would it not be crucial for these ships not to carry the Red Ensign?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, there were a number of negatives in that excellent question. Perhaps it is best if I tell the noble Lord that the ships which have been re-flagged have been part of the amphibious task group sailing with ships of the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and staying on station. This is front-line shipping and that is the reason why those particular ships have been re-flagged.
§ Lord GreenwayMy Lords, will any of the 40 or so ships which have been chartered on a commercial basis be affected by the recent decision of the Turkish parliament under which they may have to have their charters extended in order to move equipment from Turkey to the Arabian Gulf?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, there are 58 chartered ships, of which a number are UK-chartered. I understand that the decision, or non-decision, of the Turkish parliament will have no effect.
§ Lord VivianMy Lords, expanding on the security issues, does vetting of the crews of ships flying foreign national flags and the Red Ensign take place when they are carrying British military equipment to 597 the Gulf? What security measures are taken to protect those ships from terrorists posing as crew members?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, I must be cautious in how I answer that question. It is not possible to carry out security checks on the crews of commercial vessels chartered by the Ministry of Defence due to a number of circumstances. They include, primarily, the short-notice nature of the Ministry of Defence charter requirements; the rapid turnover of crew members; and non-residency in the United Kingdom. Of course it would be desirable to do so, but in the real world it just is not practicable.
As regards security measures, I repeat what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. Security measures are in place, some of which I referred to in my answer to the noble Lord and others I would rather not go into.
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, will my noble friend enlighten me on one matter? I thought that a large part of the world's merchant fleet was not flagged to the Red Ensign as a tax dodge. Are my noble friend and Her Majesty's Government totally happy that our troops will be carried into a theatre of war by companies trying to avoid taxation in this country?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, as a Defence Minister I am not normally asked questions about tax dodges. I am as confident as I possibly can be so far as concerns the noble Lord's question.
§ Lord Elton: My Lords, the reciprocal part of the last question isis the Minister satisfied with the way in which the British flagged fleet has diminished over the past 15 years, and are the Government going to do something to reverse the position?
§ Lord BachMy Lords, that is a very wide question. But I am delighted to say—as I am answering for the Government, as he would remind me if I failed to answer—that there has been a steady increase in United Kingdom registered shipping: around 50 per cent over the past two years. That figure contrasts well with that for the preceding period.