Scottish and Welsh Affairs: Ministerial Responsibility (Hansard, 19 June 2003)

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear in his Statement in another place yesterday, the Secretaries of State for Scotland and Wales continue to represent Scottish and Welsh issues in Cabinet and account on them to the House of Commons. They are assisted by the Scotland and Wales Offices which continue as distinct entities in my department.
I am responsible for the overall devolution settlements and overall government policy on devolution previously with the Deputy Prime Minister, including the Memorandum of Understanding, the Joint Ministerial Committee and the British-Irish Council.
The team of officials responsible for co-ordinating devolution issues has moved from the ODPM to my department, reporting to me.

§ Lord Roberts of Conwy
My Lords, I congratulate the noble and learned Lord on his novel office of Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs which has, as he indicated, now absorbed the Wales and 963 Scotland Offices. Can he confirm that he has the ultimate authority to decide policy directions in Scotland and Wales and that he can override the part-time territorial Secretaries of State if needs be?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind congratulations. He is wrong; I do not have the ability to override the Secretaries of State for Wales and Scotland. Not one part of their powers has been transferred to my department. All that has happened is that their officials have moved there because they share an office with another department. If another Secretary of State took over who had a different department, it would be sensible for the officials to have a home in which they stayed.

§ Baroness Carnegy of Lour
My Lords, the noble and learned Lord will be aware that one of the happenings which underpin the establishment of the Church of Scotland is that the Moderator of the Church of Scotland comes every year on, as it were, a state visit to London. He visits Parliament and he preaches in the crypt. He also attends an event at Dover House, the Scotland Office, for Scottish parliamentarians. Will the noble and learned Lord tell the House when that next happens who will receive him and where—above all, where?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, that is entirely a matter for the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Lord Carlile of Berriew
My Lords, in joining in the congratulations to the noble and learned Lord may I express the hope that he will soon visit Wales so that he will understand the more readily what the constitutional desires and aspirations of the people of Wales are? Will he confirm that the person who answered the telephone in the Wales Office on Monday and said that it was business as usual was absolutely right? If so, will the noble and learned Lord also confirm that his department will not take upon itself the power to reduce the number of Members of another place who represent Wales but will leave that firmly as a matter for the Boundary Commission for Wales?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his kind invitation to Wales. I can confirm that the man in the Wales Office who answered the telephone and said that it was business as usual so far as the Secretary of State was concerned was absolutely correct. As regards the devolution settlement, we have no plans to change it.

§ Lord Elis-Thomas
My Lords, I join in congratulating the final Lord Chancellor on his appointment. I remind him of the good times we had together in this House during the passage of the Government of Wales Act. Can the noble and learned Lord confirm without shadow of doubt that the Leader of the House of Commons will be granted leave of absence to attend the National Assembly for Wales in order to carry out his statutory duties under that Act?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I well remember the good times we had together and thank the noble 964 Lord for reminding the House of them. I also thank him for his congratulations. Of course, the Secretary of State for Wales will attend to all his statutory duties in the National Assembly.

§ Baroness Gale
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend agree that the devolution settlement for Wales has bedded down well and that in the second term it was inevitable that some changes would be made? Does my noble and learned friend further agree that one of the great successes of the Welsh Assembly, following the elections on 2nd May, was the election of 50 per cent women to it? It is the only legislature in the world that has a majority of women in the Cabinet. It is an excellent model which should be copied in Westminster and in all the legislatures of the world.

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend as regards how well devolution has worked in Wales. I perhaps would not go quite so far as she did in saying that every single legislature in the world should copy the Welsh Assembly hut I entirely agree with her as regards the success of devolution in Wales. One of the consequences of that devolution is that much more is done in Cardiff than was previously done in London. It was necessary to recognise that in the sensible arrangements made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister last Thursday.

§ Lord Forsyth of Drumlean
My Lords, will the Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs take this opportunity to clear up some confusion? Will he confirm whether or not the First Minister in Scotland was consulted about these arrangements, and whether he agreed to them? Will he also confirm that the first proposal that was put to the First Minister was that the Secretary of State for Scotland should reside in him and not in the Secretary of State for Transport?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, the proposals were discussed with the First Minister and he is perfectly happy with the arrangements.

§ Lord Thomson of Monifieth
My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor help me in my puzzlement? Are the civil servants that remain in the Scotland Office and the civil servants that remain in the Wales Office directly responsible to the respective Secretaries of State and are they not responsible to the noble and learned Lord? Can he tell me what arrangements the Government have made if the Secretary of State for Transport, for instance, and the First Minister in Scotland have opposing points of view about an important matter of public policy? How will those matters be resolved?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, the civil servants in the Wales Office and Scotland Office report directly to their respective Secretaries of State for Scotland and Wales. Any issue between the First Minister for Scotland and the Secretary of State for Transport will be dealt with in the ordinary way.

§ Lord Davies of Coity
My Lords, can my noble and learned friend advise me of the prime purpose and the 965 major advantages of merging the two offices with his, in view of the fact that he does not have overall responsibility?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, the two offices have not been merged with mine. The Secretary of State for Wales continues to exist and the Secretary of State for Scotland continues to exist. All that has happened is that officials have been placed in the Constitutional Affairs Department because that is a sensible administrative arrangement, recognising that the Secretaries of State for Wales and Scotland will in the future have other departmental responsibilities.

Lord Renton
My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord now kindly answer the question put to him by my noble friend Lord Forsyth of Drumlean?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I believe that I have already answered that question.