HL Deb 17 July 2003 vol 651 cc970-3

11.20 a.m.

Baroness Gale asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they agree with the statement of the Chief Medical Officer in his Annual Report 2002 that the public sector, particularly central government departments and the health service, should take a lead and this year set dates by which their premises should become entirely smoke-free; and whether this should apply to the Parliamentary Estate.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)

My Lords, the Government are studying carefully all the recommendations made by the Chief Medical Officer. We shall consider how they can be taken forward with all government departments, including the health service. Smoking policies within the Parliamentary Estate are, of course, the responsibility of the parliamentary authorities.

Baroness Gale

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply but, once again, I have to say how disappointed I am with his response. Does he agree that there is now overwhelming evidence to show that passive smoking causes ill health in adults, and especially in children, who suffer from asthma and other chest complaints? Does he further agree that the Chief Medical Officer's strong recommendation should not be ignored, and that every employee should have the right to work in a smoke-free environment, especially those who work on the Parliamentary Estate? May I say, in the nicest possible way, that I wish the Government would stop dragging their feet on this issue and implement these recommendations as soon as possible?

Lord Warner

My Lords, let me reassure my noble friend that the last thing we are going to do is ignore the Chief Medical Officer's advice. We agree that there is overwhelming evidence of the damage to health caused by second-hand smoke to both adults and children. We agree that smoke-free places are the ideal, and good progress has been made in this area. We will be following a strategy to encourage this improvement.

The recent publication by the Office for National Statistics shows that, for the first time, 50 per cent of workplaces do not allow smoking at all. That is up from 40 per cent in 1996. It confirms that most people want restrictions on smoking in restaurants and pubs. I draw your Lordships' attention to the fact that the Department of Health has set a good example by making all its buildings smoke-free since April.

Lord Clement-Jones

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister does not detect some underlying frustration in the CMO's report at the failure of the Department of Health to come to an agreement with the DTI on the introduction of the code of practice on workplace smoking. Is it not high time that the Department of Health got the DTI to agree to the ACOP and introduced it?

Lord Warner

My Lords, the Chief Medical Officer recommends that very serious consideration should be given to introducing a ban on smoking in public places. This issue is still being considered within government and I have nothing to add since earlier discussions.

Lord Geddes

My Lords, as always, I declare an interest, as a member of the Pipe and Cigar Smokers' Club. While acknowledging the perseverance of the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, on this subject, is it not getting rather close to an abuse of Question Time in that she asked a virtually identical question in this House on 1st July? Does the Minister agree with the wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire—who is not in his place—when he said on that occasion, do the Government accept that it should be a principle of liberal democracy that government should interfere with people's lives as little as possible, and that further bans should be very carefully justified before the detail of government regulations extend into every aspect of our private lives?"?—[Official Report, 1/7/03; col. 721.]

Lord Warner

My Lords, it is not for me to comment, other than to say that I am always pleased to answer Questions from my noble friend on this subject.

As regards the quote that the noble Lord read out, I do not think that we can duck out of the fact that smoking, as the Government's Chief Medical Officer has said, is a great danger to health. That is an inescapable fact and it would be an irresponsible government who were not taking forward a range of programmes to make the public aware of these dangers and to deal with issues around tobacco advertising. I do not think that the Government feel in any way repentant about that particular issue. We are aware of some of the issues surrounding a ban, but we think that increasing public awareness of the dangers of secondhand smoke exposure is a significant way forward.

Viscount Simon

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the chemicals to which people are exposed through second-hand smoke include arsenic, DDT, formaldehyde—which they say is used as a preservative for dead bodies—hydrogen cyanide—which is referred to as a gas chamber poison—Polonium 210, which is a radioactive compound, and toluene, which is an industrial solvent? If these facts were more widely known, would people not give up of their own accord?

Lord Warner

My Lords, I bow to my noble friend's knowledge in this area. He is of course right that cigarettes carry very dangerous compounds and we know that smoking kills over 120,000 people in the UK each year. The good news is that there has been a rise in the number of people quitting since 1999, and about 270,000 people have quit.

Baroness Noakes

My Lords, I take the Minister back to the reply he gave when the noble Lord. Lord Clement-Jones, asked when the Government were going to give their official position on the ACOP. I remind the Minister that the Health and Safety Executive finished consultation in 1999 and we have still not had the Government's official position on the implementation or acceptance of the ACOP. When will he tell us?

Lord Warner

My Lords, we are still carefully considering this report. As I have already said, work is in hand on a large number of other initiatives which are tackling the problems of smoking.

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff

Will the Minister inform us whether the contractors working in government departments and on the Parliamentary Estate are being advised that smoking is not acceptable, given the dangers to themselves, quite apart from the dangers of passive smoking to other people working in government areas?

Lord Warner

My Lords, as I recall, matters for the Parliamentary Estate are for the parliamentary authorities, not for the department. On the wider issue it is, of course, the responsibility of employers to make sure that their employees are not exposed to unnecessary dangers.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, is the Minister not surprised, following all the gloomy information which has been imparted to us, that there are so many old people still surviving in this Chamber?

Lord Warner

My Lords, it has been suggested that the formaldehyde might play a part in this.