Universities: Tuition Fees (Hansard, 23 January 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Baroness Ashton of Upholland)
My Lords, before universities are given freedom to raise tuition fees, they must demonstrate that they will safeguard access. Universities will not be allowed to increase tuition fees until an access agreement has been agreed with the new access regulator, including targets that the universities will set for themselves. Universities will be able to vary fees downwards without conditions.

§ Baroness Seccombe
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Yesterday, she said: it would be completely wrong for the regulator to be considering the detail".—[Official Report, 22/1/03; col. 717.] If that is the case, how on earth can the regulator possibly do the job?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I stand by exactly what I said yesterday. We do not expect the regulator to be involved in the detail of individual admissions—for example, as I said yesterday, by sitting in on interviews or doing anything of that nature.
Access agreements might include details of how the university was helping—through link schemes, for example—to target people in schools who might not otherwise aspire to go to university. There might also be details of a university's bursary schemes or summer schools and of the admissions process. Those are exactly the things that the regulator will look for.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, does my noble friend recall the Answer that she gave to my Starred Question on 24th July, 2001? She twice paid tribute to the access policies of Oxford University and, in response to other noble Lords, of other universities too. Is her view of the Oxford admission scheme the same now as it was then? Does she remain committed to the principle that world-class research-based universities are essential in our country? In that context, academic excellence is of paramount importance.

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I remember the Answer intimately. I pay tribute to all universities, 887 including Oxford, for their excellent work in broadening access. We hope and trust that the regulator will assist in that process, not least because it will provide an opportunity for an independent person working within the Higher Education Funding Council for England to point to the tremendous work that the universities do. The universities may find that of value, as they seek to demonstrate that they want the best students.
I hope that, as my noble friend and others consider the White Paper in more detail, they will see the emphasis that we put on world-class research and the way in which we strive to make sure that we have world-class research and to recognise the universities that are already at that level.

§ Baroness Sharp of Guildford
My Lords, can the Minister tell us why it is thought necessary to have a regulator for access, given that any self-respecting university already has an access policy and that such policies are monitored by the HEFCE? When KPMG examined the costs of the existing regulation of universities, they found that it was disproportionate to the benefits yielded. Is this not another case of over-regulation?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, as I have said and as is set out in the White Paper, the regulator will be based in HEFCE and will use its information and systems. There will not be another bureaucracy built around the regulator. The regulator will, of course, be independent, but we are keen to ensure that we work within a system that already exists.
The reasons should be evident to the noble Baroness. Many noble Lords will be aware that, as we move to a new situation, in which we allow differential fees in universities, there is great concern to ensure that, the impact of those differential fees is not felt by students who come from the poorest backgrounds. The combination of allowing people to pay off their loan and pay their fees at the end of their course and ensuring that universities work hard to maintain or improve their record on access is necessary if the policy is to be successful, as, I know, the universities wish it to be.

§ Lord Ackner
My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us the position with regard to fees in the major European universities? Do they have a method of financing comparable to top-up fees?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I cannot answer the noble and learned Lord's question at this stage. I shall write to him to give him the details.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, yesterday, the noble Baroness said: We are in discussion with our colleagues in Scotland to ensure that we have an appropriate system".—[Official Report, 22/1/03; col. 713.] 888 What does that mean? I have a second question. By definition, a regulator must regulate. What powers will the regulator have to regulate?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, we have discussed with our colleagues in Scotland the implications of increasing the threshold from £10,000 to £15,000. It will apply in Scotland, as Inland Revenue rules are applicable. We have ensured that that has been discussed, understood and recognised by our colleagues in Scotland.
As we move forward, our colleagues in Scotland will be interested to see the impact on universities in Scotland or on Scottish students coming to universities in England. As noble Lords would expect, that dialogue continues. I hope that that clarifies the position for the noble Baroness.
As is set out in the White Paper, the regulator will have the power to impose fines on universities that do not follow their access agreement or do not have an access agreement. The regulator will also have the power to require universities to reduce their fees to the standard rate.

§ Baroness Howe of Idlicote
My Lords, has not the time come for the Government to loosen, not increase, their regulatory authority over universities? Does the Minister agree that one way would be for the Government to decide how much they can afford to pay for each university student—including extra payments for those from disadvantaged backgrounds—then allow universities to compete for students in the marketplace?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, the noble Baroness will not be surprised to hear that in the course of the 18 months that the Government have deliberated on the matter, every possible avenue has been explored in determining how best to put together a system that does what we want. I will rehearse that we want a world-class university system properly funded, with contributions from those who benefit—including the Government on behalf of the nation. We believe that we have found the right balance.