President Mbeki: Chequers Meeting (Hansard, 19 February 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Amos)
My Lords, the Prime Minister met President Mbeki at Chequers on 1st February. They discussed a wide range of issues, including Zimbabwe. We shared our views of the problems facing the country. President Mbeki said that his government are engaged in dialogue with the Government of Zimbabwe to address the difficulties there. The Prime Minister made the UK's position clear—that we want to see a return to good governance in Zimbabwe, including respect for democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

§ Lord Blaker
My Lords, I am grateful for that reply. Has not the abuse of human rights in Zimbabwe worsened since it was suspended from the councils of the Commonwealth in March last year? President Mbeki and President Obasanjo of Nigeria are two of the members of the troika, with the Prime Minister of Australia. Is it true that they do not wish to meet the Prime Minister of Australia and wish the suspension to be removed?
Is the noble Baroness aware that Mr Mbeki is reported as having recently told The Times that: African countries … should be left to deal with human rights issues in their own way"? Will the Government make it perfectly clear to every member of the Commonwealth that, in their opinion, it is not solely for the African countries to deal with abuse of human rights when the principles of the Commonwealth are themselves abused, but for every Commonwealth country?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, the Government's position on the matter is quite clear and known by all Commonwealth countries. We firmly uphold the Harare principles. I agree that the human rights and humanitarian situation is worse this year than last year, and that Zimbabwe does not live up to the Harare principles. However, the matter is for the troika. I understand that the Commonwealth Secretary-General will review the situation in Zimbabwe and make a report to the troika. Even if the members of the troika do not meet, they will have to make a recommendation to the Commonwealth Heads of Government, who mandated them in that regard.

§ Lord Hughes of Woodside
My Lords, will my noble friend clarify that latter point? If the troika does not meet or make a recommendation, will the suspension 1131 be automatically lifted, or does there have to be a positive vote by Commonwealth countries in order to lift the suspension?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, we have not yet had a view on the matter from the Commonwealth Secretary-General, although my understanding from the Marlborough House declaration of last year is that the lifting of a suspension would not be automatic. Indeed, my view is that the status quo would prevail until the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Nigeria in December. We will have to wait and sec what the Commonwealth Secretary-General recommends to the troika and the outcome of that discussion.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, did the Prime Minister raise with President Mbeki the possibility of improving the flow of information to Commonwealth member states, in view of the fact that there seems to be a widespread lack of understanding of the worsening situation referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Blaker? That is particularly important in a week during which five opposition MPs and a judge were arrested for no reason at all. Will the Government discuss with the Commonwealth Secretary-General how all the information about the human rights violations can be collected and disseminated, possibly using the Secretary-General's website?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I am not aware whether that specific point was raised in the discussion between the Prime Minister and President Mbeki. However, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, that we regularly pass to our Commonwealth colleagues information that we have at our disposal not only about the deteriorating humanitarian situation but also about abuses of human rights. The noble Lord has raised on previous occasions the question of the Commonwealth Secretariat playing a more central role. As I have said previously, the Commonwealth Secretary-General will carry out a review of the Marlborough House declaration to put to the troika, and I shall raise with him again the possibility of the Secretariat acting in a more central role in respect of the flow of information.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, I believe the Minister will remember that last November she told the House that the UN report on the pillage of the Congo by Zimbabwe would be sent to the Commonwealth. She also told us that the Government were already producing short information papers. Can she clarify whether the Government are sending those papers directly to the individual countries or whether they are being sent through the Commonwealth Secretariat, which is not quite the same thing?
As Zimbabwe is unable to speak for itself, can the Minister also say whether anything is being done to ensure that the whole Commonwealth sees, for example, Mr Fergal Keane's film about what is happening inside the country? Will the film shown last week, bravely filmed within the country by 1132 Zimbabweans themselves, also be shown? I cannot help feeling that a great deal of this information is ending up in pigeon-holes in the Commonwealth Secretariat office and is not reaching the countries themselves. It seems to me that that is the very least we can do for a country which is unable to speak for itself.

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I can confirm that the papers that we have produced are being sent directly to individual countries. I am unable to answer the noble Baroness's question about the UN report and the films that she mentioned. If she will allow me, I shall write to her and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, was the question of extending and toughening the travel ban on Zimbabwe's leaders discussed at the Prime Minister's meeting? In that context, does the noble Baroness agree that it is a pity that the legitimacy of Mr Mugabe, who came to power on a massive voting fraud, is being greatly enhanced today by his welcome at the Elysée Palace?

§ Baroness Amos
My Lords, I believe the whole House is aware that it was our strong view that Mugabe should not travel to Paris. Last week, the continuation of the travel ban, the assets freeze and the arms embargo was agreed by the European Union. That remains the position.