§ 3.16 p.m.
§ Lord Wallace of SaltaireMy Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice; namely: Whether Her Majesty's Government intend to make a Statement on the European Council meeting held in Brussels on Monday 17th February.
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn):VI y Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister plans to make a Statement to the House of Commons on the European Council this coming Monday. We have placed a copy of the European Council's own statement in the Library. We do not propose to preempt the Prime Minister's customary Statement to the House of Commons by making a Statement about the European Council to this House this week.
We have had extensive recent opportunities to debate policy towards Iraq, including the European aspects. My noble friend Lady Symons has just answered a Starred Question on the topic at some length. There are two topical Questions tabled for tomorrow, addressing aspects of the question. Furthermore, I am happy to tell your Lordships that the usual channels have agreed that there should be a further full day's debate on Iraq next Wednesday.
§ Lord Wallace of SaltaireMy Lords, does the noble Lord the Leader of the House recognise that in this very fast- moving situation we need to ensure that the Government keep Parliament as a whole, whichever Chamber is meeting, as well informed as possible? Does he accept that any suggestion of avoiding Parliament does not help to carry rather sceptical public opinion with the Government?
I understand that the Prime Minister held a one-and-a-half hour press conference this morning on Sky Television. I have just heard that the Foreign Secretary is to make his second speech in two weeks to a London 1025 think tank. It would be preferable if some of those speeches were made to Parliament for an open and full debate.
Do Her Majesty's Government welcome the statement yesterday? Do they attach importance to re-establishing consensus among EU member governments, including, if possible, consensus among the four EU member governments currently serving on the United Nations Security Council?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, despite outward appearances, I was not born yesterday. The noble Lord is trying to get me to make a Statement on a topic on which I have said we are not making a Statement. The Foreign Secretary made a full Statement to the Commons last Thursday. The Prime Minister will make his Statement this coming Monday. We shall have a full day's debate next Wednesday. It cannot reasonably be said, although it might be said on a partisan basis, that this House does not fully and regularly discuss these matters.
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, most Members of this House will be deeply disappointed by that answer from the noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House. Given the information we have just received from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, that the Prime Minister had a one-and-a-half-hour press conference this morning, is it not right that he is treating this House with the contempt, of which we have so often accused him in the past?
The noble Baroness, Lady Symons of Vernham Dean, the Deputy Leader of this House, is widely respected in all parts of it and has shown again this afternoon her ability to come to the Chamber and make a Statement if that is the Government's policy.
How can people viewing the debate outside the House possibly be convinced of the case for going to war if this Government will not trust Parliament with the information?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, this is completely unreal. The Prime Minister gave his monthly press conference this morning and he responds to questions put to him. Jack Straw made his Statement last Thursday. We shall have a full day's debate next Wednesday. To suggest that the Prime Minister is being derelict in his duties to Parliament is significantly unfair.
§ Baroness Williams of CrosbyMy Lords, I very much appreciate the arrangements that the Leader of the House has made for further Statements and debates, which I am sure is appreciated throughout the House. Perhaps I may draw to his attention the fact that this is probably the most dangerous situation this country has faced since the Cuban missile crisis; that things are moving extremely quickly—literally from day to day everything changes; and that the outcome of the European summit is completely relevant to our discussions during the next few days and indeed it has a very important part to play in them. Further, can he 1026 say why this House is not regarded, when another place is in Recess, as an appropriate place to hold the executive to account?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, no Minister from the Lords attended the relevant meeting. The Prime Minister was there with the Foreign Secretary. In our democracy, with an elected and a non-elected Chamber, it is not right, in due conscience and respecting the Commons, to expect a Prime Ministerial Statement to be pre-empted in this Chamber by a Minister who was not even there.
§ Lord MarlesfordMy Lords, an important constitutional point has been raised. Is the Leader of the House saying that it is in principle never appropriate for the Government to make a Statement to this House of Parliament when the other House is not sitting? Or is he saying that in this particular case no Minister who sits in this Chamber is competent to make a Statement?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I make neither proposition; nor could any rational mind come to the conclusion that I had, as the noble Lord will doubtless reflect. I have said that the Prime Minister will make a Statement next Monday. It is wrong for the Prime Minister's Statement to be pre-empted. Frequently I repeat his Statements, but neither I nor my noble friend Lady Symons had the benefit of being at the meeting. It is right that Parliament should be fully informed first by the Prime Minister.
§ Lord Howell of GuildfordMy Lords, is not the noble and learned Lord—perhaps I may say, very uncharacteristically—slightly missing the point? Is he not aware that yesterday's meeting was of vital and immediate significance and that major issues were discussed which will affect us all? By next Monday—as the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Crosby, said—things will have changed radically. The Statement next Monday will probably be on completely different matters. Parliament is now sitting. Surely, it is entitled to hear some account of the vital decisions, difficulties and problems—particularly with our neighbour and partner France—that were developed and announced at yesterday's meeting. These are very important matters. Parliament should hear about them.
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, that is precisely why I suggested to the working practices group, which I set up, that topical Questions should be asked. It turns out that I was right so to do, because tomorrow's topical Question of the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, is to ask Her Majesty's Government what is now their policy on relations between the European Union and NATO. It cannot be said with any hope of belief that this House is not regularly informed in Statements and that Answers to Questions are not given. That simply cannot be said.
§ Earl RussellMy Lords, "informed" is not really a sufficient word. Mr Peter Riddell is technically correct 1027 that war is a matter of royal prerogative and rulers may undertake it without consulting Parliament. But is the Minister aware that Ministers who have done that, have universally done so at their own peril? Will he give an undertaking that no British troops will be involved in action until both Houses have had an opportunity to debate and, if they wish, to vote on the proposal that they should be so involved?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I am not giving such an undertaking. The Government's position has been made abundantly plain by the Prime Minister and by Jack Straw on several occasions. I return to my self-congratulatory theme; the very question put by the noble Earl is in fact the second topical Question for tomorrow. So the system seems to be working rather well.