HL Deb 17 December 2003 vol 655 cc1151-3

3.2 p.m.

Lord Jenkin of Roding

asked Her Majesty's Government: Whether the United Kingdom would be bound by amendments to the European tissues directive which ban the use in research of embryonic stem cells and stem cells from cloned embryos.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)

My Lords, the European Parliament voted on 16th December to accept amendments to the European directive, which will enable vital research on embryonic stem cells and stem cells from cloned embryos to continue. The directive safeguards high levels of safety and quality for all human tissues and cells, using human applications such as transplantation.

Lord Jenkin of Roding

My Lords, the Minister will recognise that that happened only yesterday, while my Question was tabled over the weekend. The compromise reached between the Council and the European Parliament will be extremely welcome, not least to the many scientists in this country engaged in this enormously important field of research. I should also add that I am grateful to his private office for bringing me up to date on the matter, as the procedures are extremely opaque.

Would the Minister not agree that the people who are opposed to that kind of research an: not going to go away, and that there may be occasions in future when exactly the same threat is posed to stem cell research being done in this country? Will he give the House an undertaking that, in the light of all the votes and debates that we have had, and the number of Select Committees that have considered the issue, there is no risk of us being told to desist such research by a European institution? Such a result would be utterly unacceptable.

Lord Warner

My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord's remarks. He is correct in saying that we have had nearly two decades of extensive public and parliamentary debate on many of these issues and reached a decision supported by a large majority of Parliament and the public. In our negotiations over the directive, we have made clear the UK's position and have spent a lot of time dealing with MEPs. I pay tribute to the cross-party support we have received from MEPs from the UK in that area. We have been clear about our objectives with those who take a different view from us. We have been clear about the need to protect patient safety but also not to thwart promising scientific research that would help thousands if not millions of patients in the longer term.

Lord Clement-Jones

My Lords, I, too, welcome very much the result yesterday in the European Parliament, and the compromise reached with the Council. I am very much at one with the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, on that. However, is not the next task to persuade the EU to fund research in that area? Despite the Minister's comments, a significant number of Conservative MEPs expressed their disagreement with that funding. How would the Minister advise us how best to use the offices of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, in that respect to persuade them that we need that funding?

Lord Warner

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. However, my understanding from the Commission is that, although there was some disagreement over the funding of research at the Council of Ministers on 3rd December, under the present legal interpretation there is nothing to stop the programme of research on stem cells continuing. We always welcome contributions from all sides of this House in trying to push our concerns in Brussels.

The Lord Bishop of Rochester

My Lords, would the Minister agree that what happens to research on embryonic stem cells depends very much on what happens with research on adult cells?

Lord Warner

My Lords, we have been over that ground many times, and we believe that it is important to have stem cells available both from adults and embryos as part of pursing promising areas of research of benefit to patients.

Lord Walton of Detchant

My Lords, is the Minister aware that following the acceptance by Parliament of the amendments to the human fertilisation and embryology legislation last year, many licences are now being awarded by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority for such research in this country? Is he also aware that the favourable atmosphere towards stem cell research, with potential inestimable benefit to human health in the UK, has resulted in several distinguished scientists from countries from across the world, including the United States, coming to work in the UK? Is that not a position that we should protect at all costs?

Lord Warner

My Lords, the noble Lord is of course quite right. We share his views on the matter.

Lord Turnberg

My Lords, is it not the case that we have in this country a very robust regulatory mechanism based on sound scientific and ethical principles? I take the opportunity of commending my noble friend the Minister on the hard work that he and his officials have done in bringing this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

Lord Warner

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right. That is why we have been able to demonstrate to other countries that there is a rigorous system for monitoring activity in this area, which made a contribution to the successful negotiations that have taken place.

Lord Patel

My Lords, I declare an interest, in that I am the chairman of the Steering Committee for the UK Stem Cell Bank. In that role, I ask the Minister to tell the House what stand the United Kingdom is taking in the United Nations on the subject. I am pleased to have his reassurances, and I am sure that the scientists of the United Kingdom will be very pleased with both yesterday's development and his reassurance that the United Kingdom will now pursue the release of EU funding for embryonic stem cell research. The stem cell research has been approved, but the money is required for embryonic stem cell research.

Lord Warner

My Lords, the noble Lord may be referring to some of the discussions in the United Nations on reproductive and therapeutic cloning. We have made our position clear in our unwavering support to maintain the ability to carry out therapeutic cloning in this country.

Earl Howe

My Lords, I wonder if I could press the Minister further on the Question asked by my noble friend Lord Jenkin. Can he confirm that stem cell research is defined by the European Union as an ethical issue and therefore not a matter on which the European Parliament has powers to legislate? Will subsidiarity continue to apply on issues of this kind?

Lord Warner

My Lords, that is exactly the line of argument that the Government have pursued in these discussions. I have personally made that view known to a number of MEPs on behalf of the Government.