§ 3.17 p.m.
§ Lord Hyltonasked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will take action to translate the Geneva Accord and the Ayalon-Nusseiba agreement into just and permanent peace arrangements for the Middle East.
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, we commend the initiatives and the debates that they have stimulated among Israelis and Palestinians and, more widely, in the international community. However, we remain of the view that the road map is still the right route to a comprehensive settlement in the region. At the heart of that settlement, there would be a two-state solution-Israel secure within its borders and a viable contiguous state of Palestine.
§ Lord HyltonMy Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Does she consider that, within the road map process, there is now scope for some secret but official diplomacy on the outstanding issues? Will Her Majesty's Government also encourage the European Union to offer incentives for negotiation and penalties for not negotiating? Finally, will the Government 872 encourage and urge the United States Government to continue and to persist with their mediation in the kind of way that only they can do?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, the Government believe that those initiatives add value to the road map process because they set out the steps needed to move towards a comprehensive settlement. They expand on the road map's vision and complement what is in the road map. The noble Lord asked whether they offer scope for what he described as secret negotiations. There is scope anyway for negotiations, some of which will be more publicly articulated and some perhaps less so.
The noble Lord also asked about the position of the European Union and the United States. Both the European Union and the United States have given the kind of response that I articulated in my initial response; that is, they commend the efforts here and they think that this opens up some opportunities for further discussion. But I am unsure that, at this stage, any of us want to go quite as far as the sticks and carrots approach suggested by the noble Lord.
§ Lord Wallace of SaltaireMy Lords, does the Minister recognise that the agreement of Secretary of State Powell to meet the leaders of this unofficial initiative marks the recognition by the American Government that this is a useful way of reviving an almost deceased road map? Does she also recognise that the conventional wisdom in Washington is that between February and November 2004 the US presidential election campaign means that the US can do nothing as regards the Middle East? Therefore, we have a very short window of time in which to seize this opportunity.
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, 1 do not entirely agree with the final point made by the noble Lord; namely, that, by definition, during an American election campaign, nothing will happen. That is a matter for the United States politicians involved to decide. I would point out to the noble Lord that perhaps there are different constraints in this election to previous elections: we can discuss how the mechanics of that would work.
I welcome the fact that Secretary of State Powell has said that he will meet those who have put forward this very useful approach. Of course, the question refers to two different papers that have been put forward. It is not only the Geneva Accord but also the Ayalon-Nusseiba agreement that is of interest.
§ Lord Howell of GuildfordMy Lords, does the noble Baroness share with me-I am sure that she will- regret at the latest suicide bombing outrage in Tel Aviv and yet more pointless deaths? Will she help all who will listen to understand that suicide bombing will achieve nothing whatever to carry forward any kind of peace accord? Can the Minister tell us whether it is true that the Israeli Government are now considering- presumably under some kind of American pressure- 873 realigning the fence or wall that they have been erecting, which has been roundly condemned both in Washington and in London?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, on the question of the appalling incident this morning in Tel Aviv, I refrained from referring to that because in the immediate aftermath of what happened it is not clear that it was a suicide bombing. Reports are still very confused. There is some indication that, as horrible as the incident may have been, it may have been a criminal incident and not a suicide bombing in the way that, alas, we have come to recognise as being part of the Israel/Palestine conflict. We must wait to see how that unfolds.
As regards the issue of the routing of the security fence, of course we would welcome any reconsideration that the Israeli Cabinet would give to that. We have discussed this matter before in your Lordships' House. I have reiterated to your Lordships that it is a question not of the fence in itself but of the routing, which we believe to be unlawful because of the path that it takes over the land on the other side of the 1967 line.
§ Lord HaskelMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Geneva Accord is but one example of the Palestinians and Israelis getting together at grass-root level to discuss past peace? Does my noble friend agree that the work of organisations such as Three Faiths in Britain, One Voice in America and the joint Israeli and Palestinian schools and hospitals is a cause for optimism and a force for good?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanYes, my Lords, I agree with that wholeheartedly. The organisations that are able to bring together-across the communities involved-those who are willing to talk about a way forward that is constructive and does not immediately move to the extremes of argument is very much to be welcomed. I reiterate the words of the Prime Minister when he asked the noble Lord, Lord Levy, to go on his behalf and issued a statement about the Geneva Accord. He said:
I hope that this initiative will also show that Israelis and Palestinians remain capable of finding partners for peace and working together, and encourage a return to the negotiating table".That is exactly the kind of sentiment that I believe your Lordships would support.