§ 2.44 p.m.
§ Lord Janner of Braunstoneasked Her Majesty's Government: Whether, in light of the recent recommendations by the leaders of the 13 royal colleges of medicine, they will introduce legislation to impose a complete ban on smoking in public places.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)My Lords, the Government welcome the royal colleges' contribution to the debate on the dangers of second-hand smoke. We have said consistently that smoke-free indoor public places are the ideal. We want to see better progress in extending the number of smoke-free public places on a voluntary basis. The question for public debate is whether local authorities should have new powers to introduce smoking bans at work and in public places.
§ Lord Janner of BraunstoneMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does he accept that in this country some 120,000 people per year die of smoking-related diseases? More than 1,000 of those deaths are caused by passive inhalation of other people's smoke? Is it not right to say that each year a quarter of a million people are treated in hospital for smoking-related diseases; and that the cost to the National Health Service is some £1.5 billion? In those circumstances, surely it is not enough simply to say, "Well, we will encourage the voluntary stopping of smoking in public places"; people should be helped to give up the habit, as many noble Lords have done, including myself and the mighty noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington—
§ Lord Janner of Braunstone—whose expressive body language has not changed as a result of her giving up the habit.
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, as I would expect, my noble friend's figures are quite right. I was wondering when the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, would enter the debate. I am not sure whether she participated in one of the many NHS quitters programmes that the Government have stimulated. I can tell the House that nearly 700,000 people have been through those quitters programmes and that after four weeks approaching one-quarter of a million say that they have still quit. I remind my noble friend that in my Answer I mentioned the "Big Conversation" launched last week by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. Like all good conversationalists we want to listen also to the other side of the argument.
§ Lord Clement-JonesMy Lords, despite the Minister's reply and the consultation document, the public health Minister has made the Government's current views quite clear; namely, no ban on smoking in public places. Why do the Government not listen to their own Chief Medical Officer? If the Government will not listen to the CMO and to the presidents of the medical royal colleges who wrote in The Times the other day, to whom will they listen?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, we always listen to the Chief Medical Officer on all matters because he usually has a great many worthwhile things to say and 99 prudent advice to give. The noble Lord will remember that I have just said that the Prime Minister launched the "Big Conversation" with people on a large number of issues. One issue—if he looks at the document—is whether powers should be given to local authorities to introduce a ban in the workplace and public places. Having started that conversation, we wish to hear what people have to say.
§ Baroness Finlay of LlandaffMy Lords, I remind the Minister that I have tabled a Bill concerning smoking in public places in Wales. Perhaps I may ask the Minister whether, in the light of his comments, the Government intend to support the devolved administrations in dealing with smoking in public places as they see fit for the populations they serve.
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, and from the repeated discussions that we had on the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Bill, the Government regard health as a devolved matter. This is a matter for the Welsh Assembly.
§ Lord TurnbergMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that a major problem at the moment is the rise in young women taking up smoking? There is a concomitant rise in young women of the nasty diseases that affect smokers. Does he agree that this specific group of individuals in particular should be targeted with anti-smoking activities?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, my noble friend is of course right: there are concerns about young women taking up smoking. The other side of the issue is the fact that since the Government came to office, the work on persuading pregnant women to reduce smoking has been very successful, along with the reduction in the prevalence rates of smoking among 10 to 15 year-olds.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the estimate of 1,000 deaths per year due to passive smoking is only an estimate; it is not an actual figure? Does he also agree that other studies show that there is no correlation between passive smoking and disease? Finally, does he agree that it is quite absurd to suggest banning smoking in all public places, which presumably includes roads, when deaths from vehicular emissions are estimated to be 30,000 per year?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, I am not sure that I agree with the drift of the noble Lord's questions. There is good evidence to suggest that second-hand smoking is deleterious to public health.
§ Baroness Oppenheim-BarnesMy Lords, having listened to the conversation, do the Government intend to act on the outcome?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, the Government are famed for listening to points made to them in conversation. I 100 see no reason why the conversation that the Government have on these issues should be different from any other.
§ Baroness Howarth of BrecklandMy Lords—
§ Baroness Howarth of BrecklandMy Lords, does the Minister agree that we might set an example and that the conversation could begin here about voluntarily giving up smoking in this House?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, I am grateful for that question, but it is not my responsibility to act in respect of what goes on in this place.
Lord Morris of AberavonMy Lords, is my noble friend right when he says that health is a devolved matter for Wales in this respect? Does it not require primary legislation?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, as I understand it, under the Bill proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, action would fall to the Welsh Assembly.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, does the Minister agree that despite unproved assertions that passive smoking seriously harms children, most of us over the age of 60—and possibly most of us over the age of 50—were brought up in households in which one or both parents smoked, in some cases heavily, in spite of which we are, by and large, fit, healthy and very much alive to tell the tale?
§ Lord WarnerMy Lords, I am not sure that there is a question there.