Israeli-Palestinian Dispute (Hansard, 9 April 2003)

§ The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean)
My Lords, on 10th March, President Arafat announced the appointment of Mahmoud Abbas to the newly-created position of Palestinian Prime Minister. This is a significant first step towards stronger Palestinian political institutions and a resumption of the peace process.
Yesterday in Belfast, President Bush restated his commitment to publishing and implementing the quartet road map as soon as Mr Abbas is confirmed as Prime Minister. Implementation of the road map is the way forward to a final, comprehensive settlement. We call on the parties to co-operate fully with the quartet to this end.

§ Lord Blaker
My Lords, I feel sure that, like the noble Baroness, noble Lords will welcome the two events to which she referred. Is it not likely that President Bush will have to spend a lot of time and energy—as he undertook to do—in promoting the road map, bearing in mind that Israel has already put in a great number of amendments to it, including one which could possibly prevent any negotiations at all? On the Palestinian side, there appear to be differences between Yasser Arafat and the newly-appointed Palestinian Prime Minister. Nevertheless, are not these negotiations vital for stability in the whole of the Middle East and for the control of terrorism? Will the noble Baroness give an assurance to the House—I am sure that she can—that Her Majesty's Government will exert every possible effort in supporting President Bush in what he has undertaken to do?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I given that undertaking unequivocally. The Prime Minister has already exerted every possible effort to get us to the position in which we find ourselves today. I agree with the noble Lord that much work remains to be done. We cannot be complacent on the basis of statements made yesterday that a smooth path lies before us. There will be a great deal of difficulty. No doubt many on all sides will not wish the road map well. On the other hand, as the noble Lord, Lord Blaker, noted, the President of the United States, in talking about the hard work that had gone into the peace process in Northern Ireland, said, I am willing to spend the same amount of energy in the Middle East". That is a very heartening phrase from the President of the United States. I know that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will also wish to put a great deal of effort into this matter in the future.

§ Lord Sheldon
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that many believe that the road map is a euphemism for a journey that will not end at an acceptable destination, and that unless the United States puts realistic pressure upon Israel the Middle East will remain an area in which conflict will continue?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, there is a great deal of truth in what the noble Lord says. Realistic pressure must be brought to bear on all sides, not just upon the Israelis. We need to recognise that there will be enemies of the road map on all sides and that a great deal of straight talking will have to be undertaken not only as regards the Israelis but also as regards others. I say to the noble Lord that it is very important indeed to recognise the phases that have been set out in the road map. I refer to the insistence on ending Palestinian violence—a very important issue for the Israelis—issues about security and other reforms leading to a second phase with the creation of the independent Palestinian state within provisional borders. There is a road map and it behoves us all now to do everything that we can to support it.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, the dates in the road map are now getting rather close. Is it envisaged that as the road map has already been delayed, the stages for the road map will necessarily have to be delayed a little further?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we have to be very careful about that. Once you start moving around certain parts of the road map—the noble Lord can see where I am going here—it opens up the possibility of changing other parts of it and tacking here and there. Then we will find that the road map does not look like the document that we all wish to support at the moment. The important date concerns a permanent status agreement being reached in the year 2005 under phase three, including an agreement on borders, refugees and the status of Jerusalem. That is the objective towards which, I hope all your Lordships agree, it is right for the international community to work.

§ Lord Clarke of Hampstead
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that any map or route plan must include some reference to the right of Israel to exist within safe and secure boundaries, and that Resolution 242 of the United Nations is as important today as it was when it was first carried?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I agree wholeheartedly. The whole point of the road map is that two states should be able to exist side by side within secure borders and, importantly, be respected as two states within those secure borders by other countries in the region. We attached enormous importance to the statements of Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia when he made the point very forcefully that that was the basis on which the Saudi Arabians—who, after all, have had some bitter things to say in the past about our friends in Israel— 222 would be willing to support the measure. So my noble friend is absolutely right: the safety and security of the borders is vitally important. That is why phase one, which deals with security, is so important.

§ Lord Hannay of Chiswick
My Lords, does the Minister agree that one of the most important matters is to get rid of the pre-condition that no negotiation can take place so long as any acts of violence are occurring, as that hands the agenda to the men of violence who do not want a peace process in the first place? Does she also agree that the road map is not open to negotiation? What has to be negotiated now is the implementation of the road map, not an endless argument about what is in it.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I agree with the point that the noble Lord made about preconditions. If we had worked on the basis of the preconditions, we would not have got anywhere with the peace process in Northern Ireland. I refer to the important remarks of the President of the United States about the implementation of the peace process in Northern Ireland. I am terribly sorry but I have forgotten the second point that the noble Lord made. Will he remind me?

§ Lord Hannay of Chiswick
My Lords, I asked the Minister whether she agreed that the negotiation has to be about implementing the road map, not arguing about what is in it.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
Indeed, my Lords. That was the point that I tried to make when the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, talked about the possibility of changing some of the dates. The difficulty is that if you start to negotiate on dates for the road map other issues may be put forward as matters that can be renegotiated. It is important to stick with the road map and to talk about the best way of achieving it.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, although most of us want to see the road map as soon as possible, will not the proposed Palestinian Prime Minister need a few days, first, to gather his full team and, secondly, to establish that he has proper powers and is able to carry forward the kind of issues that we want to see carried forward? Does that not make the case for showing patience for a few weeks until that is clear?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, that is precisely why the road map has not been published so far. British diplomats have had meetings with Mahmoud Abbas, otherwise known as Abu Mazen, who is at the moment putting together his Cabinet appointments. At the point that he has formed his government, we hope that he will be confirmed as Prime Minister by the Palestinian Authority. At that point we shall look to see the road map published.