HL Deb 09 April 2003 vol 647 cc225-8

3.6 p.m.

Lord Judd asked Her Majesty's Government:

What will be the role of the United Nations in humanitarian assistance and reconstruction in, and political rehabilitation of, Iraq following the fall of the regime of Saddam Hussein.

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

My Lords, as the Prime Minister and President Bush agreed yesterday, the United Nations should have a vital role in the reconstruction of Iraq.

Security Council Resolution 1472 allows for the resumption of humanitarian aid through the Oil for Food programme. We have welcomed the efforts of the United Nations agencies and non-governmental organisations in providing that vital and immediate humanitarian assistance to the people of Iraq.

Her Majesty's Government and the United States Government would welcome further UNSCRs confirming Iraq's territorial integrity, providing for further humanitarian relief and endorsing an appropriate post-conflict administration for Iraq.

We hope to work closely with the United Nations to assist the people of Iraq in establishing an interim Iraqi authority as soon as possible.

Lord Judd

My Lords, I hope that it is in order once more to express our admiration of the courage and professionalism of our armed services in fulfilling the task that is expected of them. I also hope that it is in order to express our concern for the wounded and the bereaved on all sides.

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does she agree that the UN has a vital role to play in the co-ordination of humanitarian and construction work because many humanitarian agencies feel that they are able to play their part fully only if there is an international presence that is led by the UN? Does she also agree that this is not simply a matter of endorsing arrangements for the political future of Iraq but that if we are looking for stability not only in Iraq but in the Middle East and in the world as a whole—if we are to win hearts and minds—the UN, with the global authority and impartiality that it will bring, is essential to the task of building that political future and bringing into being the arrangements that will be necessary for the Iraqis themselves to take control of their own affairs?

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

Yes, my Lords, I can agree with virtually everything that my noble friend said. I join him, as I am sure all noble Lords do, in the admiration that he expressed of the courage and professionalism of our Armed Forces. I add that many noble Lords will have seen with admiration the compassion and humanity of our Armed Forces when dealing not only with civilians but with many wounded combatants from the other side.

Of course the United Nations has a vital role; that was stressed forcefully by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and the President of the United States. I say to the noble Lord that some international NGOs are already operating in Iraq. He will know that the Red Cross and the Red Crescent are already undertaking some important work. I point out to him that, in view of his passion about the United Nations, he will find a great deal of reassurance if he reads the account of the press conference yesterday, in which the President of the United States three times reiterated the importance of the role of the United Nations.

Lord Wright of Richmond

My Lords, following the reference of the noble Lord, Lord Judd, to hearts and minds, is the Minister aware that, according to the Financial Times this weekend, Mr Jay Garner, who apparently has been appointed interim governor of Iraq, has considerable experience of working in northern Iraq following the Gulf War but that his main business connections have involved the sale of L-3 missiles to Israel and he is on record as praising the Israeli Army's use of remarkable restraint in handling Palestinian unrest? Is that an example of sensitivity?

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

My Lords, I believe that we must look at what Mr Garner is being asked to undertake at present in Iraq and at what he is doing, together with his deputies. I remind your Lordships that one of those deputies is a United Kingdom Army officer, who is serving with particular responsibility for international liaison. I consider it to be most important that one of the people playing a vital role in relation to Jay Garner is British. We look to him to ensure that the values that your Lordships would wish to see brought to bear are in the forefront of minds.

Of course, people will want to raise all kinds of issues in relation to particular individuals. But we must consider the purpose of ORHA and the fact that, in answering Questions only today, my right honourable friend said that ORHA is only a stage on the way to establishing the Iraqi interim authority, which we hope will be in place very soon.

Lord Howell of Guildford

My Lords, reverting to the Question, does the Minister accept our view that, once it can be organised—it may take a little time—UN expertise will be both welcome and invaluable in all stages of Iraq's rehabilitation? But does she accept that the overriding aims of the coalition and UN agencies in working together must be to meet the immediate humanitarian needs, which are desperate, and to put in place the foundations of a civil administration, placing those operations in Iraqi hands as soon as practicable? Will the Government remind the French that, despite their remorseless hostility to fresh UN resolutions, a new resolution is needed here and now—immediately—to lift the sanctions on the new Iraq?

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

My Lords, of course I believe that the role of the United Nations will be, as the noble Lord put it, invaluable. I point out to the noble Lord that humanitarian needs have been covered by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1472, which allowed for the Oil for Food programme to resume and for aid to reach the Iraqi people.

So far as concerns our friends in France, perhaps I should say that President Chirac has expressed the view that, following a necessary stage of ensuring security, there will naturally follow a time of reconstruction with a command that the UN should play what he called a "central role". I do not believe that there is such a world of difference between what the Prime Minister said yesterday about a vital role and what President Chirac said about a central role. I am sure that, with good will on all sides, work can be done to bring about agreements at the United Nations.

Baroness Northover

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the breakdown in law and order in Iraq was sadly predictable? Can she tell us what plans the Government had drawn up in advance to deal with that, and can she give us details of how, when and with whose help those plans will now be implemented?

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

My Lords, I believe there is a period in any military conflict when what the noble Baroness described as "a breakdown in law and order" takes place. Like your Lordships, I have seen television pictures of a certain amount of looting. However, I do not consider that that amounts to a complete breakdown in law and order, and I believe that the noble Baroness should be careful not to exaggerate the situation of young people looting objects that they desire into a complete breakdown of law and order. Murder and mayhem are not taking place on the streets, as the phrase "a complete breakdown of law and order" would seem to imply. However, the situation in Basra has been a cause for concern. As a result, the British military have sought to engage on the spot Iraqis who may have authority with the people of Basra in order to contain some of the unruly elements, particularly among younger people, who have sought to take advantage in looting buildings.

The Lord Bishop of Portsmouth

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, thanks to many factors—international communication technology included—this war has been more debated than any other in living memory? Is that not a further argument for healing the wounds of our own international friendships which have been severed and for ensuring that the United Nations is put back in the driving seat as soon as possible?

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean

My Lords, I agree that 24-hour coverage has meant that we have seen on our televisions some very distressing pictures of what has taken place. I cannot help thinking that in many ways that is a good thing and that we should be confronted with the horror of war. We should know what is going on in our names. I, for one, have supported this military conflict; many of your Lordships have not. But I have not sought to turn my face away from what is being done in my name and I believe it is right that we face up to it.

In respect of the role of the United Nations, of course we need United Nations authority for what happens in the longer term. But it is also important that the coalition and the United Nations work together on this issue in the longer term. I have no doubt that there will be much argument about the precise role of the United Nations—we should not pretend that there will not be. But we can all believe in the principle of the United Nations playing a vital role or, to express it in the French way, a central role.

Lord Desai

My Lords—

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)

My Lords, we are now out of time, I am afraid.