International Terrorism (Hansard, 28 October 2002)

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the United Kingdom is, and will remain, at the core of the long-term effort to eradicate international terrorism. We have disrupted Al'Qaeda in Afghanistan and denied it bases there. We are confronting states that condone or harbour terrorism. We are helping vulnerable countries to develop better counterterrorism capacity. We are committed to Afghan reconstruction. We have pushed through United Nations measures to block terrorist financing, and we are tackling the underlying causes of terrorism.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Are the Government making every effort, with others, to discover who was responsible for the bombs in Bali and also, now, in Moscow, which killed and injured so many? Are they ready to take counter-action when such information becomes available?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are making every effort. My noble friend Lady Amos gave comprehensive answers just now on Bali. As for the hideous events in Moscow at the weekend, it is clear that that was action taken on behalf of those who want independence for Chechnya.
The international community must pull together to counter terrorism. We have done that through our activities at the United Nations and by helping states that find it hard to deal with terrorism—possibly because they are failing states—to build the capacity to counter it.

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, President Bush appears to regard the threat to invade Iraq as part of the war against terrorism. I find the conflicting objectives coming out of Washington extremely confusing. Does the Minister agree with the view of Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed of Malaysia that war against Iraq would lengthen the anti-terrorist campaign and create more willing recruits to the terrorists' ranks?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I am aware that there are those who would agree forcefully with the noble Lord. At the invitation of the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury, I went to an inter-faith discussion last week. At that meeting, many people—those from the Middle East, for example—said that war against Iraq would lead to much greater bloodshed in the Middle East. I am aware of such views.
At the same time, we have a responsibility to deal with the threat posed by Iraq. The fact that the threats and problems—terrorism, on the one hand, and Iraq, on the other—have arisen at the same time causes difficulties. However, in dealing with terrorism, we should not let Iraq believe that it can go on producing weapons of mass destruction without the rest of the world trying to stop it.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that in the battle against terrorism the one thing we must all avoid is over-simplification? Most of the problems in which terrorism breeds are complex. It was reassuring to hear what my noble friend said about the causes of terrorism—economic, social and political injustice—but we must always seek to win as many people into the political process as possible, rather than pushing them into the arms of extremists.
Does my noble friend further agree that it is vital that we ensure that the essential domestic measures taken to deal with terrorism in any country, including ours, do not play into the hands of the terrorists by unnecessarily undermining the very qualities and principles that we defend?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I agree with the consummate common sense of my noble friend's question. Of course, the genesis of terrorism is complex; we had an excellent debate on Vie issue in 11 your Lordships' House, instituted, as I recall, by the noble Lord, Lord Dahrendorf. In that debate, the complexities of the issue were well aired.
It is important that we do not push individuals in different countries towards terrorism. There may be various reasons behind individual acts of terrorism, and individuals may find that their terrorism is allowed to flourish against a background of particular perceived social, economic and political exclusions. It is important that we try to deal with such issues. That is why the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been working hard on the issue of failed states. Some worthwhile work has been produced on that issue, which was addressed by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary a couple of weeks ago.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, I think that I understood from the Minister's reply to the noble Lord, Lord Wright of Richmond, that the question of sanctions against Iraq—in connection with the production of weapons of mass destruction—is not necessarily connected with the struggle against terrorism. Can the Minister confirm that? The struggle against terrorism is a wider issue, which requires the use of non-military means as least as much as the use of military means.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, in the mind of some, the two issues—terrorism and Iraq—are very much connected. We have discussed the issues in your Lordships' House, and there is, for example, no direct linkage that we can see between Al'Qaeda and Iraq, although it is true that some Al'Qaeda terrorists have sought sanctuary in Iraq.
The issues must, of themselves, be tackled. We must tackle them at the same time because they have arisen now, and our international responsibilities dictate that we should tackle them both.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, we agree with the Minister's comment that, in the mind of many, there are links between terrorism and Iraq. We should approach the matter accordingly.
The Minister mentioned Afghan reconstruction. Can she say whether the reports in the weekend's newspapers that, since the fall of the Taliban, the output of opium poppy products in Afghanistan has increased by 18 times are true? That is despite the fact that the British Government have provided £40 million in an attempt to persuade Afghan farmers to reduce such production. It does not sound as though the war on drugs is going well in Afghanistan.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the issue of poppy products is complicated. Although, under the Taliban, a lot of planting was forbidden, the processing of poppy products into heroin went ahead. As a result, about 80 per cent of the heroin used in this country came from Afghanistan. That figure has decreased. It is a complicated issue, and, if I may, I 12 shall write to the noble Lord with better particulars of poppy products, on one hand, and heroin production, on the other.