§ 3.2 p.m.
§ Lord Williams of Mostynrose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 28th October be approved.
719 The noble Lord said: My Lords, as your Lordships will have seen, there are three orders relating to Northern Ireland. It may be convenient if I deal with the first distinctly and with the second and third together.
The Employment (Northern Ireland) Order 2002 contains a series of measures designed to give employees rights in terms of their employment. It includes the right to two weeks' paid paternity leave, either when the child is born or around the time when a child is placed for adoption; a new right to 26 weeks' paid and 26 weeks' unpaid adoption leave; amendments to existing rights during (and after) maternity leave; and a duty on employers to give serious consideration to requests from parents of young children to work flexible hours.
Extensive public consultation has taken place and there has been widespread public support. In another form, this measure was about to enter the penultimate stage of its passage through the Assembly. Before suspension the Northern Ireland Assembly voted on 7th October to approve all of its provisions. This order simply gives rights to those who are employed in Northern Ireland, and they are the same as those available in England and Wales.
Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 28th October be approved.(Lord Williams of Mostyn.)
§ Lord GlentoranMy Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for bringing forward this order. It is sad that it has to be brought to this House and that it has not been dealt with in the way intended previously. I support the order.
§ Lord LairdMy Lords, on behalf of my Ulster Unionist colleagues, I am happy to give a broad welcome to the order before us today. As a Unionist, my reaction tends to be supportive when legislation from Great Britain is extended to Northern Ireland. However, my inclination is generally even more positive when the legislation appears to be beneficial to people in the Province.
As noble Lords may he aware, the Employment (Northern Ireland) Order 2002 is almost identical to the Employment Bill which was being debated by the Northern Ireland Assembly prior to its unfortunate suspension. That Bill was considered by the Assembly Employment and Learning Committee that subsequently published a report on its findings. The committee's views were generally welcoming, particularly in light of the Bill's provisions on the extension of maternity leave, new rights on adoption and paternity leave and pay, and an obligation on employers to consider seriously requests from parents of young children to work flexible hours.
However, there were also some reservations about the Bill and. having been in touch with Dr Esmond Birnie, the Ulster Unionist chairman of the committee, I know that many of those reservations continue to exist now that the legislation is in the form of an order: for example" there is a concern with regard to the 720 widening of eligibility under the terms of the order, which is a worry that I share. There seems to me to be little point in bringing forward positive legislation such as that before your Lordships this afternoon unless we can ensure that as many people as possible are enabled to benefit from it.
One suggestion put forward by some committee members in an effort to improve the situation was that the word "worker" should replace the word "employee" in the legislation. It was argued that this amendment could well have made an additional 5 per cent more people become eligible for the benefits. However, I see that that advice has been ignored in the order and I would be grateful if the noble and learned Lord could tell me the reasoning for that.
The committee also expressed concerns about the extension of the right to request flexible working to those with other caring responsibilities, such as elderly parents, as well as the removal of the age barrier of six years, above which working parents of children would not be permitted to request flexible working hours from their employers. Similarly, committee members also came to the view that the right to request flexible working by parents of disabled children should not be limited by the age restriction of 18.
On a final point, the Employment Bill was expected to come into operation in February 2003. However, there were concerns raised that a "gap period" potentially existed whereby mothers who are expected to give birth from the week beginning 6 April 2003 could actually give birth as soon as late-November 2002. In cases such as those, when a birth expected after 6 April 2003 occurs prior to the regulations coming into operation, the parents would be excluded from the statutory entitlements included in the legislation.
Having read the order before us today, I see that its provisions will come into operation on such day or days as the Government may by order appoint. Is the Minister yet in a position to indicate when that might be?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I am not in a position to deal with that last point. As soon as I am I shall write, as I hope I always do, to the noble Lord, placing a copy in the Library.
On his point about premature birth, that would obtain in most circumstances of employee protection. On the phraseology in the order, my understanding is that it mirrors the legislation that obtains in the rest of the United Kingdom and it certainly continues the phraseology that has been used, as far as I am aware, in the pre-existing legislation.
I am able to give the noble Lord more up-to-date information. We intend to make the necessary regulations as soon as possible after the Employment (Northern Ireland) Order receives Royal Assent. I believe that is a more satisfactory answer than the one I was able to give a moment ago.
On Question, Motion agreed to.