Transport Policy (Hansard, 29 May 2002)

§ Baroness Seccombe
asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they have any intention of changing their 10-year strategy for transport.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, the 10-year plan is an unprecedented long-term framework for increased investment to improve our transport system. It marks an end to years of under-investment and "stop-go" funding policies, and was widely welcomed as such. Like any long-term programme, it will need to be reviewed periodically to assess progress and take stock of events; but we remain committed to delivering the plan's long-term objectives and providing the funding needed to do so.

§ Baroness Seccombe
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that reply. Does he accept the view of the Select Committee of another place that transport policy is a shambles? The Deputy Prime Minister is openly criticised by his colleagues as a failure, and his successor has humiliatingly resigned, after hanging on for far too long. Is the noble and learned Lord aware that we now know that this Government have spent less in real terms on transport than their Conservative predecessors? When will the Prime Minister get a grip on this utter mess—which the public have to endure on a daily basis?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
No, my Lords, I do not agree with the characterisation given by the noble Baroness or the Select Committee. Transport poses real problems. The 10-year plan is unprecedented. It involves a 44 per cent real terms increase over the 1349 previous 10 years. Over many, many years, there has been a huge period of under-investment in the railways. Until this Government came to office, there had not been a government committed to the importance of the railways. If you speak to people engaged in the railway industry now, they will say that the foundations are being laid for a better and improved rail service. So it is difficult; it will take time; but we are committed to it.

Lord Berkeley
My Lords, is my noble and learned friend aware that one of the successes of the 10-year plan is a 6 per cent increase in bus use in London? Does he agree that that is due to bus lanes? There are now more buses on the road and fewer cars. Only 6 per cent of journeys in London are now made by car—although I suspect that the proportion to and from this House is rather higher. Is not that a significant benefit; and does it not indicate the success of the 10-year plan in regard to London?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
Yes, my Lords. I was aware of the points made by the noble Lord. The importance of bus traffic, not only in London but throughout the whole country, is very great, and is improving. People should recognise improvements when they occur.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords—

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, has the Government abrogated all responsibility for London in their 10-year plan?

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, is the Minister aware—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, but the noble Lord, Lord Swinfen, did ask a complete question—he put his question and then sat down in a manner which indicated that the question was complete. We have not abrogated responsibility for London. We have provided responsibility in the GLA Act that was passed in the previous Parliament. That gives the setting of priorities and the delivery of transport policy in London to the mayor—and that is sensible.

§ Lord Bradshaw
My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord confirm that any transport plan must put the needs of railway passengers before those of shareholders? Does he accept that some form of restraint on the use of the private car in congested places will be necessary? Does he agree that we need a real policy, rather than the gossip and rhetoric that we are getting from the other side?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord's final remark. "Gossip and rhetoric" would be too kind a way to describe the Conservatives' 1350 contribution to the debate. Yes, I agree that it is very important that the needs of the travelling public should come first. This Government have taken the difficult decisions that seek to get rid of the conflict between the interests of shareholders and those of the travelling public.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, is the Minister aware that promises, commitments and strategies will not help? What really matters is performance. The Government have now been in office long enough to show some signs of performance as regards their promises. So far, there has been none.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
Yes, my Lords, delivery is critical in relation to transport. That requires political will—for example, in relation to the commitment to the railways—to make a difference. That is what the Government are doing.

§ Viscount Astor
My Lords, there is a certain "end of term" feeling to the Minister's answers this afternoon. We wonder why. But is he not finally just slightly embarrassed that the Transport Select Committee in another place—on which there were 11 members of his party, a majority on the committee—published a unanimous report whose conclusion was that the Government's plan is ill balanced?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I do not remotely have an end-of-term feeling. It seems to me that the rest of the House has an end-of-term feeling. As I said in reply to the noble Baroness, Lady Seccombe, we do not accept the characterisation in the Select Committee's report. The 10-year transport plan sets out a strategic programme for sustained investment over 10 years. What has been lacking for all too long in relation to transport is a long-term commitment to the future of public transport—and that is what the 10-year plan included.

§ Baroness Howarth of Breckland
My Lords, will the Minister reassure the House that in the 10-year plan there is adequate concern for rural communities? I am fascinated by this debate. It takes me two minutes to catch a train on the Jubilee Line to an excellent Underground system that gets me to the House in halfan-hour, whereas I have no transport at all in my home town—indeed, from one village, there is not one bus. I simply seek reassurance that we are looking at rural communities as well as spending so much time worrying about the urban communities.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, transport in rural areas is vitally important. Since this Government 1351 came to power, there have been 1,800 extra bus services in rural areas because of the importance that we attach to it.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend—

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, it is the turn of the Labour Benches.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend endorse the comment of the rail regulator, Mr Winsor, in the aftermath of the recent Potters Bar accident, about Railtrack's contractual arrangements? He said that Railtrack was replacing "discredited contracts" with "stable, long term relationships" and taking more direct engineering responsibility. He went on to say: They are taking more control and direction of the contractors, and I think that Railtrack's contracting strategy, which I have criticised severely in the past, is now being reformed—and Railtrack is reforming in exactly the right way". Has not the late Secretary of State left behind a very important legacy?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, yes, it is an important legacy. I also draw attention to the fact that the rail regulator, Mr Tom Winsor, also pointed out— I do not know whether it was in the same interview—that the response to the Potters Bar crash involved a much more unified industry in which the regulator, SRA, Railtrack and central government all acted together to try to identify the problems and deal with them as quickly as possible. That represented a real change, and it represents something that the late Secretary of State did.