HL Deb 12 June 2002 vol 636 cc253-5
Lord Rotherwick

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they intend to prosecute passengers for importing illegal meat.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty)

My Lords, prosecutions are a matter for the enforcement authorities. The Government are committed to ensuring that there are effective deterrents in place. We are addressing the issues with all the agencies involved and working with them to improve intelligence sharing and to focus deterrence action for maximum impact.

Lord Rotherwick

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. However, is he aware that, given the Government's present record of stopping illegal meat imports, most people would believe that this Government had little interest in halting this grisly trade? Indeed, in the past couple of years there have been only three prosecutions and those were brought under the CITES convention. Only a few aircraft have been stopped coming into Heathrow from West Africa. The passengers, when searched, were found to be carrying literally tonnes of illegal meat. When do the Government intend to get tough and prosecute these gangs and individuals who at the moment flout our laws and bring in illegal meat such as bushmeat which could cause serious animal and human diseases?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I repeat that the Government are not the prosecuting authority; prosecutions are a matter for the enforcement agencies. The noble Lord is, of course, right to the extent that there has been detection of illegal meat. By and large that meat was not of itself likely to cause animal disease but did present a public hygiene problem and possibly a problem as regards endangered species. Clearly, the Government's intention is to reduce the motivation for bringing in such meat, to increase the deterrents and to involve the airlines, the port authorities and the enforcement authorities in minimising that trade.

Earl Peel

My Lords, given the threat to which my noble friend referred and given the very real concern that exists within the farming community, bearing in mind that both foot and mouth and swine fever probably both came in on the back of illegally imported meat, do not the Government accept that, instead of having several agencies which are responsible for this problem, the time is now right to have one sole agency that is properly funded with the correct level of personnel and the ability to buy all the necessary surveillance equipment in order to deal with this very real problem?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the relative jurisdictions of the various agencies is one of the issues that the Government are addressing. To change the structure of jurisdiction would require legislation and is therefore a medium-term prospect. In the meantime we are looking at co-operation and better co-ordination and the prioritisation of those authorities which exist which, of course, have wider responsibilities than stopping illegal meat imports.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, why do we not take this matter as seriously as do Australia and New Zealand? Is the Minister aware that dogs can be trained to search out human bodies? Such animals could successfully tackle the problem we are discussing if there were enough of them.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the Government take the matter seriously. The situation in Australia and New Zealand is different from that in the UK. We are part of a single market and the vast majority of goods and people who enter the UK travel from other EU countries. The external EU regime is the important issue here. We have raised with the Commission the need to tighten restrictions in that regard. Our own enforcement measures may indeed benefit from the use of dogs and we intend to give that a trial run. However, it would not be a case of using the same dogs to seek out illegal meat as those that seek out illegal immigrants or drugs. Although that is one aspect of enforcement and detection. it is not perhaps the most important one.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords—

Noble Lords

The Liberals!

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, other meat is still coming into this country. We do not appear to have enough people to check meat that is imported from countries where various diseases exist. Have we now a plan to check these ordinary imports coming in through our ports?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, as regards commercial traffic, there is a full check on the documentation of all imports of meat and meat products. The procedure varies a little according to the provenance of the products concerned, but in general at least one in five is physically checked. There is, therefore, a high level of checking. In addition, there is targeted checking of those products in relation to which intelligence indicates that there might be a problem. There is already, therefore, a high level of checking at the ports of containers used in the supposedly legal trade.

The Duke of Montrose

My Lords, I declare an interest as a trader in livestock. I was glad to note that the Government have empowered local authority inspectors to stop and search passengers. However, does that extend also to port health authorities? Recently, EU inspectors issued a critical report on the way in which we conducted our hygiene inspections. Do the Government have any plans to direct more vets to that task?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the points raised by the EU inspectors are being addressed by the Government. The additional powers to search relate to the environmental health officers and port officers.

Baroness Strange

My Lordsx2014;

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords—

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)

My Lords, there was an unfortunate misunderstanding earlier, and I think that we should hear the noble Lord, Lord Campbell.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, I apologise for crossing the wires; I did not mean to. I have a very short question. The noble Lord said—or implied—that the Government will do nothing and that they will leave the matter to the prosecuting authorities. Is he aware that that is a profoundly unsatisfactory answer?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I should have thought that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, of all people, would understand that it is not the job of the Government to prosecute and that it is their job to ensure adequate resources, deterrence, information and intelligence to minimise the threat of the entry of illegal imports. That is the Government's job. It is the prosecuting authorities who take decisions to prosecute.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, is the Minister aware that Boston airport in America is filled with beagles wearing green coats with "sniffer dog" written on them and that those dogs smell out imported foodstuffs?

Lord Whitty

Yes, my Lords, I am aware of the regime that confronts travellers into the United States. That is clearly part of that country's way of engaging in deterrence. It is also, however, regrettably true that a large amount of illegal meat finds its way into the United States across its frontiers. Even such a regime is not a complete failsafe for keeping out illegal meat.

Back to