HL Deb 16 July 2002 vol 637 cc1086-9

2.39 p.m.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether Parliament is free to refuse or amend the European arrest warrant as agreed by Her Majesty's Government on 13th June in the Justice and Home Affairs Council of the European Union.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Filkin)

My Lords, the framework decision on the European arrest warrant was adopted at the Justice and Home Affairs Council on 13th June and cannot itself be amended. However, the European arrest warrant will come into operation in the United Kingdom if the Bill to give effect to it is approved by this Parliament. Naturally Parliament is free to refuse or amend the Bill, the draft of which was published on 27th June.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. But if the British Parliament refuses or amends the arrest warrant, will we be in breach of our treaty obligations? Is not one of the most unsatisfactory aspects of our relationship with the European Union and one of the least known that once the executive has agreed or been out-voted on a new law in Brussels, Parliament must rubber stamp it or the United Kingdom is in breach of its treaty obligations? Sometimes, though not in this case, that can result in payment of unlimited fines in the Luxembourg court. Therefore what is the point of Parliament debating and scrutinising EU legislation if the executive signs up to it anyway and we become a rubber stamp?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, I repeat that Parliament has a completely free hand in this respect and there is nothing that the executive can do to compel it to respond in a certain way. However, I am confident that, when we have properly considered the draft Bill, Parliament will approve it because it is in the interests of the British public. We have an extensive system of scrutiny in this House and the other place to ensure that the United Kingdom does not sign up to any measure of the Justice and Home Affairs Council before we have had clearance of the scrutiny processes and are sure that it is in the interests of the British public to do so.

Lord Goodhart

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the power to refuse extradition on human rights grounds, as set out in the draft Bill and the White Paper, will cover cases where conviction of the defendant involves a breach of his human rights; for example, where it would be contrary to his right to freedom of speech?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, the noble Lord is exactly right. To put it beyond any doubt, the draft Bill will make clear that we will not extradite in any circumstances where we consider there is a probability that doing so would breach the prisoner's human rights.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, at the meeting of Sub-Committee E the noble Lord told myself and other Members that if Parliament decides not to pass this legislation in a Bill there can be no infraction procedures by the Commission. I understand, however, that the Commission believes that it can introduce infraction procedures. Can the Minister tell us whether he or the Commission is right? If Parliament does not agree to the provisions for the European arrest warrant, will there be political rather than legal consequences? What would those consequences be?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, the noble Lord's question invites a relatively easy answer. I shall not change my view. Therefore, he must draw his own inference as to who is right or wrong. It is of course possible that there has been a misunderstanding as to exactly what are the respective roles.

The position is clear. In the unlikely event that Parliament decided not to pass legislation to put the framework document on to the face of European legislation, as is its right Westminster law would prevail. It would be open to a member state, if it so wished, to take action for non-compliance against the British Government in the European Court. I do not envisage those circumstances coming about for reasons I have already explained.

Lord Elton

My Lords, the noble Lord thinks this is a reasonable measure. He also says that there has been pre-scrutiny. My recollection is that there was a proposal to introduce a European arrest warrant in legislation that passed through this House and that that provision was removed. Is that the pre-scrutiny he was referring to, or has there been some other?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, the noble Lord has the advantage on me. I am not certain that I connect with what he has referred to. The pre-scrutiny I was referring to was the deposition in October last year in both this House and the other place of the draft framework agreement which led to a most careful and thorough process of scrutiny in both Houses. The British Government reserved their agreement to the framework agreement until scrutiny had been cleared in both Houses.

Earl Russell

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the most practical place to hold the European Council of Ministers accountable is in the European Parliament? When did he last hear the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, recommend that course?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, the honest answer is that I cannot recollect the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, having recommended that course.

Baroness Park of Monmouth

My Lords, with great respect, I was under the impression that the appropriate committee did not receive sufficient time for scrutiny. I should like to hear from the noble Lord whether the legislation before the House will or will not provide that persons who have committed an act which is a crime in other European countries but not in ours will not be extradited. That has been the position so far. The proposal was that that should change. Can he tell us what the situation is and what the legislation will provide for?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, as the House may well know, the draft legislation is available to be inspected. It was deposited in draft form at the end of June, allowing a three-month consultation period. No doubt parliamentarians will contribute to that as much as ever. With regard to dual-scrutiny, the position is that if someone commits in, say, France, an offence which is covered by one of the 32 generic headings—for example, terrorism, trafficking in human beings, laundering the proceeds of crime, kidnapping, rape or murder—it will be possible to apply for his extradition from this country to France. That will be a quicker process. It will bring to justice sooner people who have committed crimes. By reverse, it will make possible people facing justice in this country who have fled justice by going abroad. It is in the interests of British society that they should be held to account in British courts rather than being able to avoid justice—for many years in some cases.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the lifting of a scrutiny reserve by the Select Committee of both Houses is not the same as full agreement in debate in both Houses? Secondly, when he says that the arrest warrant was not agreed by the Government until the scrutiny reserve had been lifted, does he agree that the British Government gave provisional agreement to the arrest warrant a long time before the scrutiny reserve was lifted? Can he clarify what is the legal source of provisional agreement in the European Union?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, provisional contracts, like draft contracts in that sense, have no force at all. They are an indication that the British Government thought that the framework agreement was moving in the right direction. They were seeking to achieve objectives that were in the interests of British people. The reserve is put down, as the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, well knows, to preserve the position of scrutiny so that proper scrutiny can take place. Scrutiny can influence the final shaping of such documents, as I believe happened in respect of the framework agreement on the arrest warrant. Therefore, the scrutiny processes in this House had a positive effect on the final document.

Lord Monson

My Lords, can the Minister say what would happen if someone in the Channel Islands were accused of uttering a xenophobic remark, say, about Belgians or Greeks? The Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom; nor are they part of the EU. However, the United Kingdom is responsible for their external relations. Could an arrest warrant be issued in such a case?

Lord Filkin

My Lords, it is one of my many failings that I am not an expert on Channel Islands law. If someone made xenophobic remarks in the United Kingdom about another country he could not be extradited under the framework agreement. We are firm that if anyone undertakes an act in this country which is not an offence in this country he cannot be extradited.

Lord Cope of Berkeley

My Lords, am I right in thinking that, if the Government had wished, on 13th June they could have placed a full parliamentary reserve on the matter, saying that they would wait until Parliament had had the opportunity to approve the legislation? On reflection, would that not have been a better approach?

Lord Filkin

No, my Lords, I do not think so, unless one thinks that there is absolutely no benefit to this country from the processes of collective working and co-operation in the European Union. We think that there are significant benefits to Britain from the European arrest warrant. Having negotiated what we felt was an improvement to it, and having allowed both Houses of Parliament to scrutinise it thoroughly, we lifted our reserve. I repeat: it is still open to Parliament, if it so wishes, not to incorporate the framework agreement into domestic legislation.