Afghanistan: British Detainees (Hansard, 29 January 2002)

§ The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean)
My Lords, British officials have had access to three British detainees held by the United States authorities at Guantanamo Bay. The International Committee of the Red Cross now has a permanent presence at Guantanamo Bay and ICRC officials have 75 access to the detainees held there at any time. They also have access to detainees in Afghanistan. I further understand that a British official has also seen one British detainee in Afghanistan.

Lord HyIlton
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Can she say how many British persons are now held in Afghanistan and whether any of them are held in very bad conditions at Mazar-i Sharif? Can she also confirm that there will be no indefinite detention—that is to say. no hostage holding—and, finally, that those who may be charged with offences will be tried before British courts?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we know of only two British detainees in Afghanistan. As I mentioned, one has been seen by an official. But there may, of course, be others of whom we are unaware at the moment. We shall continue to make inquiries to try to find out whether there are further British detainees held in Afghanistan. There is no evidence that the United States, or any other detaining authority, is trying to hold detainees indefinitely. Most detainees have been in custody for only a few weeks and, of course, the crucial issue is that their status has not as yet been determined. The noble Lord also asked about the issue of where a trial should be held. We should be happy for trials to be held in this country if—I stress the word "if"—that were the most effective way of pursuing a prosecution and if the United States authorities were happy to proceed on that basis.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, what right does the United States have to detain British citizens even for a matter of weeks on the territory of a third party state? Is not the best course of action, if it is said that these men have committed criminal offences, for the United Kingdom to request the US authorities to deliver the men up to us so that they can be tried in British courts?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, this really does beg difficult and, if I may say so, highly complex legal questions about the status of the detainees in the first place. The noble Lord will know that there has been a great deal of speculation in our own press and in the United States about the status of the detainees. The United States as the detaining authority still has not made a decision on that issue. I believe that I have made the British Government's position clear on the question of possible trials in Britain, but I repeat that we should be happy to do that if it were a sensible and effective way of pursuing justice arid, of course, if that were something to which the United States as the detaining authority was able to agree.

Lord Acton
My Lords, can my noble friend say—

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, I think that it is the turn of this side.

Lord Acton
My Lords, is it?

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, yes, it is. The noble Lord can speak in a minute. There is plenty of time. 76 Is it not correct that the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has in fact called for the return to Britain of all British citizens arrested by the Americans and others in Afghanistan? On what grounds is he doing that? Would it not be wiser to focus just on those individuals against whom there are specific British charges or specific British evidence and for them to be returned to Britain and for the rest, who may well have committed terrible crimes against Americans or others, to he investigated and tried appropriately in the United States?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I am afraid that the noble Lord is not quite correct to say that my right honourable friend has called for the return of British detainees to the United Kingdom. I think that the noble Lord may refer to something which I also heard on Radio 4 last week. However, I make clear to the noble Lord that what matters is where the prosecuting authorities would have an effective chance of pursuing justice—that has to be determined—and, of course, as these are almost unprecedented cases, we would wish to proceed on a basis that could be agreed with the United States.
Of course, these issues are being raised between Ministers. I have raised them myself with officials from the American Embassy in London and my right honourable friend will pursue these issues with Secretary of State Powell when he visits Washington again on Thursday. I agree with the noble Lord that these are potentially horrendous crimes. However, we must not judge what has happened. People must have a fair trial. That is absolutely fundamental to the points that are worrying the noble Lord, Lord. Hylton. MI may say so, the real issues here are that there should be humane treatment, whatever the status of these individuals, and, that if they face trial, such a trial should be a fair one.