HL Deb 16 January 2002 vol 630 cc1070-3

2.52 p.m.

Earl Peel asked Her Majesty's Government:

What practical steps they are taking to re-establish the market for British beef in France following the recent judgment of the European Court of Justice.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty)

My Lords, the Government have made it clear that they expect France to lift its ban as soon as possible and the Commission to take further proceedings in the European Court of Justice if France does not do so within a reasonable period. We have also written to the Commission seeking a relaxation of the conditions of the date-based export scheme. Officials met the industry yesterday to discuss the way forward.

Earl Peel

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that robust Answer. In reality, are we not witnessing yet another case of a senior—indeed, a founder member—of the European Union flouting the rules in order to try to get advantages for its own producers? That makes a mockery of the whole concept of a "common" market. More importantly, will the Minister assure the House that he intends to make certain that the Commissioner imposes maximum sanctions on the French Government if they persist in refusing to take British beef—a market which represented about 46 per cent of our pre-1996 worldwide beef exports?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the export market to France before BSE was certainly very important for this country's livestock industry. By observing the new standards we could begin to restore that market once France has withdrawn its ban, as it is bound to do in view of the Court judgment. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State made it clear at the Agricultural Council just before Christmas that we expect the Commission to take action and that, within a reasonable timescale, we will press it to do so. I hope that the French comply. If they do not, I hope that the Commission will take the strongest possible steps, as the noble Earl suggested.

Lord Hooson

My Lords, what do the Government regard as a reasonable period in this context?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the next action rests with the Commission rather than the Government. As with similar cases, there is no set timescale but, as with cases in which a government have not complied with a judgment of the Court of Justice, the Commission has tended to take up the matter within two or three months.

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is not just farmers who think that the Government should be much more vociferous in protesting against a flagrant breach of European law and that they should do so publicly and privately using every possible occasion and every possible EU forum? Does he further accept that those of us who are most strongly in favour of the EU also feel most strongly that it is completely unacceptable for a country that regards itself as an advocate of further European integration to go flagrantly against the integration that is currently supposed to exist and to defy the rule of law, which is the foundation upon which the whole of the EU edifice has been built?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I and, I think, the whole House endorse that position. We have made our position clear both publicly and privately, directly and indirectly. We expect France to comply.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords—

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

My Lords—

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)

My Lords, shall we hear from the Cross Benches?

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of Honest Foods. The Minister may be interested to know that we are trying to organise a visit of 12 producers of British food to the game fair at Chambourg on 21st and 22nd June. What is the position of the several beef producers who have shown an interest? Will they be banned by the French? If so, what representations will the Minister make to ensure that appropriate demonstrations are made of British beef and that it is sold to the French?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, British beef producers, like other food producers, have every right to try to sell their wares in France. The British Government support them in doing so. I would hope that the French will have complied by June, although one has to bear in mind that there are certain domestic complications of an electoral variety in France at the moment, which may make that more difficult. I also believe that there are many people and companies within France who would welcome the restoration of British beef exports.

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

My Lords, what is the current position on BSE in this country and is there any BSE in the herds in France?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the number of cases of BSE in Britain is coming down very rapidly, whereas the number in France is increasing. There are more than 250 cases in France. In absolute numbers the incidence in Britain is still significantly higher than in France. Historically, we have had a huge number of cases—178,000—whereas France has had only a few hundred. The issue needs to be put in perspective. Nevertheless, our figures are going down and those for France are going up.

Baroness Byford

My Lords, first, will the Minister tell the House more about the discussions that were held yesterday? If I understood his response to an earlier question, he said that the French could hold out until June before fines were imposed. No; I see that he is shaking his head. Perhaps he will clarify the situation.

Secondly, how many discussions have taken place between Margaret Beckett and her opposite number in France in which there was an opportunity for her to lobby on behalf of this country? That would be in addition to the lobbying that has been going on with David Byrne, the Commissioner.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, yesterday's discussions related mainly to the terms of the DBES. We have asked for some modification to that regime to enable more abattoirs to meet the standards that are required to restore British beef exports to Europe. On discussions at the European level, as I said in response, I think, to the noble Lord, Lord Hooson, the Commission allows a reasonable amount of time—usually two or three months. The next move is for the Commission to take the matter to the Court of Justice for a ruling. I hope that within such a timescale the French could begin to comply. However, the complications to which I referred apply. As regards bilateral discussions, my right honourable friend had discussions in the margins on this and related issues, and made the point formally at the Agricultural Council in December.

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer

My Lords, the Minister has accepted the importance to beef producers here of the export market to France. But what is his comment on the fact that, according to figures produced by the Meat and Livestock Commission, imports of beef to Britain rose by another 14 per cent last year? Is he concerned at the ever-rising volume of imports, which are having a detrimental effect on our home market?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, there has been a marginal increase in beef consumption within the UK and imports have met some of that demand. I believe it is reasonable to expect that there will be some increase in beef imports. Our concern is that we do not import illegal or diseased meat. We believe that we should be moving to freer trade, and our aim is to increase British exports to match that as well as competing at home.