Martin Sixsmith (Hansard, 27 February 2002)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions (Lord Falconer of Thoroton)
My Lords, I refer the noble Baroness to the Statement that I repeated to the House yesterday, which dealt with these matters. In that Statement, my right honourable friend referred to the discussions between Mr Sixsmith and Sir Richard Mottram. He said that he was not directly involved in those 1443 discussions but that he made it clear to Sir Richard that in his view Mr Sixsmith should not be given a job elsewhere in government. He went on: Ultimately. I was not in a position to block any arrangement about his future employment elsewhere in the Civil Service, and I accepted that discussions between Sir Richard Mottram and Mr Sixsmith would continue".—[Official Report, 26/2/02; col. [1342.] Those discussions focused on Mr Sixsmith getting another job in government or being compensated according to the terms of his contract.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that the serious outcome of yesterday's Statement was that the Secretary of State brought the Civil Service and good governance into disrepute? He blamed civil servants for the fiasco in his department, he sought to interfere to end the career of a named civil servant and he publicly denigrated other civil servants before any inquiry. He has admitted to misleading the public on national television and he has been warmly supported for that behaviour by the Prime Minister. What a shameful state of affairs! Will the noble and learned Lord explain how we will know when a Secretary of State is telling the truth?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I do not agree with any of those premises. The Secretary of State is engaged in trying to improve the transport system in this country, and that is what he should be engaged in.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness who asked the Question had an opportunity to look at the faces of those sitting around her? Is my noble and learned friend aware that those faces suggest—as do those on this side of the House—that she is flogging a dead horse? Is my noble and learned friend aware—he should know better than most, because he repeated the Statement yesterday—that the question was firmly answered yesterday? Will he recall, for the benefit of the House, the gentle, delicate, subdued and even reluctant way in which Mr Ingham dealt with the press and various members of his own government at the time? Does my noble and learned friend agree that compared to that master of the black art of spinning, the present generation of government information officers has a great deal to learn?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, first, it would be unwise and infelicitous of me to comment on the faces of the people around the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch. Those faces are smiling radiantly at the moment and looked suddenly interested when my noble friend asked me to describe what they looked like. Secondly, this matter was fully dealt with—for more than an hour—yesterday in this House. The appropriate step is to go on and examine how one can improve transport. On the third matter, I am much too young to remember Mr Bernard Ingham, but I have read that when he was acting on behalf of the then Prime Minister he would brief against members of the Cabinet when they were still in the Cabinet.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, will the Minister therefore comment on a horse that is very much alive? In today's The Times, Mr Peter Riddell writes: The latest row reinforces the case for early Civil Service legislation … But 10 Downing Street has been slowing down the promised consultation over legislation". Will the noble and learned Lord confirm that the delay over that Civil Service legislation is because of blockage in No. 10 Downing Street? If so, will he use his immense influence with the Prime Minister to draw his attention to the opinions of the noble Lords, Lord Butler and Lord Bridges, and of others with vast experience, who suggest that the Government should now give priority to Civil Service legislation?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I am not aware of any such blockage. I repeat what I said yesterday. The Government have committed themselves to a Civil Service Bill when time allows. That remains our position. I also draw the noble Lord's attention to the point made today by the noble Lord, Lord Butler, who is not in his place; namely, that no Bill or Act of Parliament is going to prescribe for personal relations. He said that in the vast majority of cases, relations between special advisers and civil servants are good, and that is the position in this Government. No Bill is going to make that better or worse.

§ Lord Waddington
My Lords, in the past, have not Ministers resigned when they were caught out lying? Is not that a desirable practice?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, it is for each individual Minister to make a decision about whether his career continues.

§ Lord Corbett of Castle Vale
My Lords, may I tell the Minister that the people of Birmingham—

Noble Lords
Question!

§ Lord Corbett of Castle Vale
My Lords, may I ask noble Lords to let me demonstrate that when I begin a sentence with the word "may", I finish with a question mark—as I have just done? May I tell the Minister that the people of Birmingham, when they are not talking about the need to site the national football stadium on the edge of the city, are much more interested in obtaining better public transport and more efficient services from local councils rather than being bothered about who is working in a Whitehall press office?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, my noble friend certainly may tell me that. May I also say that the views that my noble friend attributes to the people of Birmingham are shared by people throughout the country? They want the concentration to be not on office politics, as the noble Viscount, Lord Astor, described it yesterday, but on making the transport system work.

§ Viscount Astor
My Lords, have not the Government sought to establish a new principle for Cabinet Ministers—that they can be economical with the truth on Sunday morning on television and stay in office? There was not even a proper apology yesterday; just an expression of regret in the Secretary of State's Statement.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, no, they have not.

§ Lord Merlyn-Rees
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that when I came in through the Peers' Entrance about an hour ago, there was a kerfuffle across the road and a noise? I said to the policeman, "What's it all about?" He said, "There is one chap". "What's he doing?" "He's shouting, 'Keep your hands off Stephen Byers!'" Listening to the Question of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, and the Answer made me wonder whether it was Bernard Ingham off his head.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I was not aware of that.