NHS: Professional Staff Exchanges (Hansard, 19 December 2002)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath)
My Lords, the aim of improving mobility is one that we fully support. Exchanges of professional staff bring mutual benefits to the NHS and other countries. However, free movement must be balanced by proper safeguards for service quality and public protection, and we shall ensure that this concern is addressed in ongoing negotiations.

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, I entirely accept what the Minister says as being the position of the Department of Health. However, a number of other government departments do not appear to have got the message. For example, at a recent EU competitiveness council attended by a senior DTI Minister, seven other member 780 states made objections to the directive but the UK did not. Is it not time that the Government got their act together?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the noble Lord surely knows that the Government speak with one voice on these matters. There has been very constructive discussion between my department and the Department of Trade and Industry. The fact is that UK concerns about the protection of public: and patient safety—I have no disagreement with the noble Lord's concerns on this issue—were discussed and raised at the council meeting to which he referred. The UK representative made substantive points in those areas. Following that, the UK Government are now consulting with the health regulator and other appropriate organisations on some of the concerns raised at that council meeting.

§ Lord Turnberg
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there are considerable dangers in the draft order to get rid of the advisory committees on training? Those committees are said to be going. Although they are imperfect, they at least aim to get a minimum standard of training for specialists across Europe. Does he also agree that an effort should be made to incorporate an understanding of English among healthcare workers so that they can at least understand what patients are saying to them?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the issue of English, which is essentially concerned with EEA nationals, will be a matter for individual employers. We have made it consistently clear to NHS organisations that individual employers have every right and responsibility to check on the English of prospective applicants.
On the question about the establishment of a single committee to replace the existing advisory structure, I understand my noble friend's concern. Whatever the committee structure that is eventually agreed, it will be important to ensure that it has professional input and that the concerns of the medical profession and other health regulators are fully brought to bear.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords—

§ Baroness Finlay of Llandaff
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Cross-Bench!

§ Baroness Finlay of Llandaff
My Lords, what transitional arrangements are being planned to ensure that professionals from accession countries in an expanded EU have adequate standards of education and training for clinical practice here, and what time-frame is involved?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the accession treaty will allow citizens from new member states full free movement rights from the day of accession, apart from those being exercised for the purposes of work. The EU position allows member states to maintain restrictions on 781 workers from the new member states for up to seven years after accession. That provides enough safeguards in relation to the noble Baroness's question.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, what is the position of practitioners from Australia and New Zealand working in this country? I no longer have to declare an interest in this respect. If it so happens that many new people come into the National Health Service and that the Australians—the Antipodeans— look to work within other areas of the Community, will they automatically be entitled to do so or will they have to undertake additional qualifications?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, as a cricket fan I have heard rather too much about Australians in the past few weeks.
The noble Baroness is right—there has been a long tradition of Australian health professionals coming to work in this country. They are very welcome indeed, and some of them stay for many years, I am happy to say. My understanding is that currently it is up to member states to recognise or not recognise applicants; under the new directive, if such people have been recognised by, for example, the UK and they practise for three years, they would be recognised in another member state.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, does the Minister agree that recognition of qualifications raises the question: who confers the right to award qualifications? How is that right conferred in other countries in the EU? In particular, is there any other country in which the power to award a degree can be granted by the sole and unfettered action of the executive?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I do not have comprehensive information about the procedures in every other European country, but my understanding is that in broad principles it is the same as that in the UK; in other words, it is based on a competent body, which may be a government department or, in the case of the medical profession and in relation to medical degrees, a GMC-like body.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, can the Minister explain how such an unsafe and unsatisfactory directive got through the European Parliament?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the European Parliament still has to consider the directive in detail. There will no doubt be an interesting debate and amendments will be passed. I am sure that much interest will be taken in it. Essentially, it originally sought to bring together and codify a number of existing directives. However, in the process of discussion, further elements were added to it. There are clearly benefits from encouraging free movement across European countries within the EEA. We should encourage that. Equally, I accept that the Government have a duty to ensure that 782 the very real concerns expressed by health regulators are fully discussed and represented within Europe. We will do that.