Ecstasy (Hansard, 11 December 2002)

§ Lord Williamson of Horton
asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether, in view of recent research on the effect on the brain of the drug ecstasy, they will increase their efforts to warn young people of the potential damage from the use of this drug.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath)
My Lords, a three-year national communications campaign is being developed to inform young people, their parents and carers of the risks and dangers associated with heroin, cocaine and ecstasy.

§ Lord Williamson of Horton
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he agree that although some users of ecstasy may be aware of the short-term risks, almost none is aware of the long-term risks? Recent research in Baltimore on non-human primates demonstrates that even small doses give rise to lasting damage to the dopamine neurones, thus signalling a risk to humans of Parkinsonism and mental problems in the future. I would not describe this as a time bomb, but it is a very serious issue.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the noble Lord is right to draw attention to research in this area. Recent research on the effects of ecstasy on the brain has been reviewed by Professor Val Curren of University College London on behalf of the Department of Health. Her review noted limited evidence of direct harmful effects on the brain. Other literature in general and evidence from animal studies suggest possible brain changes. There is also some evidence in the literature of psychological problems in heavy users of ecstasy, although no clear causal link has been demonstrated. The Government will keep all research in this area under review. This will inform communication programmes and plans for the future.

§ Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, in the light of the worrying supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, of the Minister's response to it and of the survey on drug misuse, smoking and drinking among secondary school children commissioned by the Department of Health showing that pupils now find it more acceptable to take drugs and are more tolerant of other drug users, what plans have the Government to educate particularly the young on the real risks of taking ecstasy?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the noble Lord is right to refer to the study, published in July, showing what appears to be a more tolerant attitude towards the use of drugs among a greater number of young people since the previous study was conducted. That is a matter for concern and it will inform the national communication campaign upon which we are about to embark. It will also inform the programme that takes place in schools, which is important in terms of getting the right messages across to young people.

Lord Carlile of Berriew
My Lords, bearing in mind that most young people who take ecstasy do so when they are already entranced by loud music and possibly alcohol, does the Minister agree that to confront young people about this issue one needs to do it where they are when they take it? Is it not time for an organised campaign in which nurses, doctors and other drug experts would go into the clubs and 221 confront young people when they are liable to take the drug rather than having more committees, commissions and public information campaigns?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I should certainly like to be there to watch such a confrontation. I am not sure that the noble Lord is right in saying that that is the best approach, although I shall ensure that it is considered. I recognise that the need is for action rather than for a large number of committee sittings. However, we need to take advice from those who are most concerned. Those who work with young people in the drugs areas are giving invaluable advice. My department is also in dialogue with young people themselves. I agree with the noble Lord's key message: patronising messages from adults to young people are no good. The best messages are informed by what young people think, and it is important that we take that forward.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, does the Minister agree that young people enjoy taking risks, and that the risk factor is one of the problems in drug taking? Does he further agree that one could put up hard-hitting messages such as, "Ecstasy can kill and damage the brain" in the clubs and places where young people go?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I am all in favour of hard-hitting, accurate messages. Part of the programmes we shall be developing will seek to get across to young people as accurate a picture as possible of the harmful effects of drug taking. However, it is important that we are informed by young people themselves and by those who work with them as to the best way to get that message across.

§ Lord Tomlinson
My Lords, further to my noble friend's robust response to the original Question, will he be equally robust about other forms of substance abuse by young people and the not-so-young, be it tobacco, alcohol or even cannabis?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I do not disagree with my noble friend. The programmes that many schools have adopted seek to deal not just with illegal drugs but also the use of tobacco and alcohol. A holistic approach is appropriate, but the programmes must be accurate about the relative risks of each category.

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords—

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Strange, has been trying to speak on a number of occasions.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, does the Minister agree that we, in this House, are particularly fond of 222 young people, many of us being grandparents, great-aunts, great-uncles and godparents, and wish them all to grow to become healthy, intelligent old people like ourselves? If they take ecstasy, they will not.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I am not sure that a message to young people that, if they stay active and healthy, they will grow to be as Members of your Lordships' House could be calculated to convince all young people that they should keep away from these substances. But the noble Baroness is right to suggest that one cannot simply adopt the approach, "Don't do this" and "Don't do that". It must be positive also. The comments made in the Answer to the first Question about the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, exercise and sport are relevant.

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, without wishing to detract from the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Williamson. will the Minister confirm that the key killers are cocaine and heroin, and that it is towards those that much of our efforts should be directed?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, we should not underestimate the potential harm of ecstasy. But the noble Lord is right to draw attention to the serious consequences for users of heroin, morphine or cocaine. According to the latest statistics I have, in 2000, 926 deaths were recorded as a result of using heroin and morphine. There were 80 deaths from cocaine and 36 from ecstasy.