Europe: Maintenance of Peace (Hansard, 11 April 2002)

§ The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government believe that the cornerstone of maintaining peace in Europe has been and will continue to be NATO. Her Majesty's Government also believe that the European Union has played a significant part in providing the framework for promoting peace, stability and prosperity among its member states and in its external relations, and that with enlargement the Union will be even better placed to do so in the coming years.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I am glad to note that even this Europhile Government do not pretend that any EU country would have gone to war with another since the Treaty of Rome was signed in the absence of the EU. As to the past, would the noble Baroness not go further and agree that NATO must take all the credit for keeping the peace in Europe since 1945? As to the future, does she not agree that the EU is a top-down creation, a conglomeration of different nations, put together without adequate democratic support? Does not history teach us that such conglomerations nearly always end in disaster?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the position of Her Majesty's Government since 1997, and, I believe, well before that, has been that NATO does, indeed, take the credit for keeping and maintaining peace in Europe. However, I know that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, has serious problems with what he describes as a conglomeration of states. He told us so in no uncertain terms on 28th January last on Third Reading of the European Communities (Amendment) Bill when he said that the European Union is dangerous for peace. That is not a view taken by Her Majesty's Government; nor is it a view taken by any of the countries currently negotiating to join the European Union. The noble Lord may cast his eyes heavenward, but there are a great number of countries who want to join us and whose democratically-elected governments wish to do 522 so. I believe that the structure of the Union means that partners have a natural forum in which to raise their disputes without having to resort to aggression. That is what I meant by helping to reinforce the framework for peace.

§ Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, given the dreadful occurrences over the past 10 years in the west Balkans—countries right in our backyard where the EU spends collectively about 1 billion euros a year on aid and 5 billion euros on security—does my noble friend not agree that it is very much in our interests to treat this matter as part of the EU roadmap and that crocodile tears are being shed by those who say that the EU has no competence to act on security but at the same time oppose it doing so?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
Yes, my Lords, I agree strongly with the comments of my noble friend. The countries of the west Balkans are eligible for a stabilisation and association agreement once they meet certain basic political conditions, which are exactly what one would expect: democracy, respect for human rights and international obligations, including action against war criminals. Those criteria strike me as exactly the kind we would want in order to pursue a peaceful Europe. As my noble friend rightly says, they are also eligible for technical assistance in building institutions and establishing the rule of law. They also have considerable trade liberalisation arrangements with the European Union.

§ Lord Howe of Aberavon
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the European Union has succeeded in taming nationalism without suppressing patriotism and in sharing sovereignty without destroying the nation and is, therefore, a uniquely valuable organisation?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the noble and learned Lord put it far more eloquently than I could. People of my generation have grown up without war in Europe. I fully acknowledge what has been achieved by NATO. However, I believe that the European Union has played its role in seeing the disappearance of the fascist dictatorships of Spain, Portugal and Greece, and the communist dictatorships of central Europe. The EU is very much to be congratulated on the constructive role it has played.

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, as a former ambassador to Luxembourg, perhaps I may remind the House that although a loyal member of NATO, Luxembourg nevertheless attached enormous importance to the European Union as a guarantee against any further hostilities between her two neighbours, France and Germany, from which Luxembourg suffered grievously in the past.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, again that is a timely intervention. Perhaps I may say to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, that there may be many criticisms that could be levelled at 523 Europe. Indeed, the noble Lord is eloquent in doing so. I refer to criticisms about the common agricultural policy; bureaucracy; the complex language of treaties, on which he is a great expert; and some of the more obvious demonstrable democratic controls, about which he is concerned. However, to say that the European Union is dangerous for peace is a thoroughly implausible argument.

§ Lord Russell-Johnston
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House more about the development in the European Union of foreign and security policy? I was surprised at her robust response to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch. I do not know whether the noble Baroness has ever been to Rannoch Moor; I can assure her that it is a bleak place and may well account for how the noble Lord acquired his views. Surely the Minister accepts that while NATO will be the umbrella, the United States needs a reliable, strong, and effective partner in the whole business of making contributions to peace world-wide, to help her, advise her and sometimes to hold her back.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I do not know anything about Rannoch Moor. I take the noble Lord's word that it is a bleak place, but I would say that in my experience that is quite unlike the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, whom I have always found to be rather a jolly companion.
I remind your Lordships that the European security and defence policy does not conduct European territorial defence; only NATO does that. Of course the ESDP is for crisis management where NATO as a whole is not engaged. But the noble Lord is quite right. The United States has indeed welcomed the ESDP. President Bush said in February 2001 that the United States welcomed the EU's European security and defence policy which was of course intended to make Europe stronger. That was a worthy endorsement.