Police Service of Northern Ireland (Hansard, 28 November 2001)

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, the first recruitment campaign for the Police Service of Northern Ireland has been an overwhelming success. It has attracted over 7,500 applicants and will enable the appointment of about 300 new recruits on a 50:50 basis. That exceptional level of interest has clearly shown that the people of Northern Ireland are eager for policing to move forward.

§ Lord Rogan
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for his reply. But is he aware that my colleagues on these Benches and in another place have been inundated by complaints from people regarding the methods used in this recruitment process? Will he confirm that two recruits not treated as Roman Catholics under the terms of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 are to be told that they cannot begin training because two Roman Catholic recruits have since withdrawn? Will he accept that while my party supports the Government's goal of creating a police service in Northern Ireland more representative of the society as a whole, we can never accept their decision to resort to discriminatory practices—especially religious discrimination—in order to bring that about?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, the quality of those who have applied has been gratifyingly high. They have to pass nine competency tests as opposed to six on the mainland. I do not know the details of particular individuals. It would probably be invidious to comment on them since those are essentially operational matters for the Chief Constable.
On the question of discrimination, the Patten report suggested—I am paraphrasing fairly I think—that in order to have a generally accepted police service one should look for a significantly higher number of recruits from the Roman Catholic community. That figure has risen quite slowly over the past years, from about 7.3 per cent to 8.4 per cent. I think that the majority of opinion would be looking for a significantly higher contribution from the Roman Catholic community.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, what progress has been made on the restoration of the rule of law with regard to punishment beatings and so forth in Northern Ireland?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, that is undoubtedly a continuing struggle. Everyone who has had any contact with the police service in Northern Ireland knows how dedicated it has been. But no police service can operate without the full-hearted support of 295 all sections of the community. That is part of the reason why we want the reforms to go forward as quickly and as fruitfully as possible.

§ Lord Smith of Clifton
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, while there will undoubtedly be one or two hiccups, the figures that he has just announced actually demonstrate a remarkably smooth transition and a working of the new recruitment policy? Does he further agree that it is particularly welcome to have the support of the SDLP and of the Roman Catholic hierarchy in encouraging members of the Catholic community to apply in such numbers?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Lord's question. With regard to his second point, it is an extremely significant step forward. I do not think that one can begin to underestimate the fact that the Roman Catholic Church and its hierarchy and the SDLP have had the courage to take this very important public step. I pay particular tribute to the courage of those from the Roman Catholic community who will be in a very public front line. They know the dangers; they are willing to offer themselves for public service; and we should support them.

§ Lord Dubs
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend agree that not only should we be delighted that the Irish Government, the American Government, the Catholic Church and the SDLP have all given their support to these new proposals but also that the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland has led the way in getting the police to co-operate with the new system of policing? That is in the interest of all the people of Northern Ireland.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, Sir Ronnie Flanagan is another very remarkable public servant. He has had to demonstrate the force of the argument to a large number of his colleagues who have had colleagues murdered and who still work alongside those whose relatives have been murdered. These are all very significant steps. I repeat that we should welcome them with a full heart.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord tell us how many requests to transfer into the Northern Ireland police service have been received from other police services in the English-speaking world in the past year? Would not such transfers be very helpful in balancing the police in Northern Ireland?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I made inquiries about the figures, thinking that that question might be asked. In fact, I am not able to give specific figures because, until the final vetting stage, no inquiry is made about previous employment. That is appropriate. But I can say as a matter of fact that there have been applicants not only from the rest of the United Kingdom but from other Commonwealth countries. I agree with the noble Lord that that is extremely gratifying.

§ Lord Laird
My Lords, will the Minister give us an undertaking that all successful candidates in the first recruitment campaign for the police service have been able to fulfil all the minimum qualifications?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
Yes, my Lords.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, is my noble and learned friend aware that certain leading members of the new force feel that they are under-resourced in some areas? For example, they suggest that their information technology system is fragmented and needs updating. I do not expect my noble and learned friend to have the answer to my question now, but will he undertake to look into the matter?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, certainly. I do not know of any police force in the United Kingdom that does not have some complaint about under-resourcing, as I am sure Mr Blunkett would be the first to testify.