§ 2.57 p.m.
§ Lord Glentoranasked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they are aware of evidence of any contacts or attempted contacts between Northern Ireland-based terrorist organisations, including the Real IRA and the Provisional IRA, and Al'Qaeda or its linked terrorist organisations.
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)My Lords, it is long-standing government policy not to comment on intelligence matters. Noble Lords will 9 know that I am obliged to reinforce that position, although I hope not with discourtesy either to the noble Lord or to the House.
§ Lord GlentoranMy Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that Answer. I accept that it is very correct but somewhat briefer than I might have anticipated. However, does the noble and learned Lord agree that the 32 counties of Ireland are still awash with weapons and explosives, mainly in the hands of terrorists with international links? Does he also agree that the need for the highest levels of intelligence information, backed by the vigilance of a professional police force, is as great as ever in order to protect not only the people of Northern Ireland but also those of mainland Britain, as demonstrated in Birmingham at the weekend?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, there is a substantial body of weapons in the 32 counties, some of which are with loyalist terrorists and some with republican terrorists. Plainly that cannot be acceptable in any civilised society. The noble Lord is quite right. Of course, police work is absolutely essential and, to my knowledge, the police operate extremely closely with the appropriate agencies and with the Army. It certainly struck me at the weekend that vigilance is absolutely essential, not least on the mainland. I believe that sometimes we consider that terrorist activities will occur only in Northern Ireland. Quite plainly, as the noble Lord said, that is not so.
§ Lord Smith of CliftonMy Lords, does the Minister agree that the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, is uncharacteristically inappropriate bearing in mind that, at this particular time, it gives succour to the Pauline Armitage faction in the Ulster Unionist Party and assists in undermining Mr David Trimble?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I do not think that that was the intention of the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran. That was not how I took what he said, although I normally try to be as obliging as possible to the Liberal Democrats. The fact is that there is always a knife-edge in Northern Ireland. As it happens, the DUP applied to the courts in Northern Ireland this morning. In parenthesis, I say, with great respect, that we have an extraordinarily high-quality judiciary there—courageous, independent and honourable. As it happened, the Reverend Dr Paisley failed in his challenge.
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, it is therefore for Dr Reid to make these extremely subtle and careful decisions. We are fortunate to have a Secretary of State of that quality in post at this time.
§ Viscount WaverleyMy Lords, the Colombians have recently hosted various IRA members. To what extent does the noble and learned Lord believe that there is an association of terrorist groups linked together around the world?
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I simply do not know the full details of the Colombian connection. Her Majesty's Government made it plain that we will assist in any appropriate way. The judicial process, as the noble Viscount knows, is currently continuing in Colombia.
§ Lord Howell of GuildfordMy Lords, further to the intervention from the Liberal Benches about my noble friend's Question, does the noble and learned Lord see any connection at all between what my noble friend asked and the very important and continuing need to track down terror and to use every weapon of intelligence to do so? Did we not learn from our personal experience 20 years ago in Northern Ireland that peace processes work only if at the same time one is bearing down on terrorism in every form and using every form of intelligence? Links with Al'Qaeda are an extremely important consideration. I hope that the noble and learned Lord will totally reject the implication of the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton.
§ Lord Williams of MostynMy Lords, I am not sure exactly what that implication was. I do not think that the question was meant to be unhelpful. As noble Lords know, I am always here to pour oil on troubled waters—and then not ignite it! The noble Lord, Lord Howell, is quite right. We are hopeful that we may gain the larger prize in Northern Ireland. We all know what an extraordinary achievement that will be. We have to be vigilant all the time. There are vicious and deeply malevolent criminal sections in Northern Ireland who wish to cause damage and to harm their fellow citizens. Many of them are deeply criminal and their actions have nothing to do with political activity at all.