Organic Farming (Hansard, 9 May 2001)

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Hayman)
My Lords, the support provided for farmers undertaking conversion to organic status is in recognition of the contribution which organic farming makes to achieving the Government's aims of securing environmental benefits and orienting production to the market within the agricultural sector.

§ Lord Taverne
My Lords, while there is no doubt a place for organic farming to encourage diversity, and while there is some evidence from California that organically farmed apples are more tasty than other Californian apples, do the Government not agree that there is no sound evidence for saying that organic farming is more environmentally friendly than conventional farming, given its inefficient and wasteful use of land? Furthermore, is there not some evidence of greater risk to health, particularly a much higher risk from poisoning by pathogenic strains of E. coli?
Generally, is there any justification for subsidising a form of farming which has no basis in science but which is based instead on the rather dubious ideology of Rudolf Steiner?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, on a personal note, I ought to thank the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, for giving me the opportunity to appear at the Dispatch Box to deal with something other than a Statement on foot and mouth disease. However, after hearing his supplementary question I am not so sure.
The important point I want to make is that while there are many and varied views about the qualities of organic food as against non-organic food, it is important to recognise that we need to pursue the objectives I listed in answering his Question—environmental stewardship and bringing agriculture closer to the market—across the whole range of agriculture and not only and solely through the mechanism of organic farming. It has environmental benefits and is rightly subsidised, and it has been generously subsidised by this Government in terms of conversion but not in terms of on-going production.

§ Lord Palmer
My Lords, in view of the noble Baroness's reply to that last question, can she make a serious case for subsidising the bio-fuel industry, which really does have enormous environmental benefits?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I would expect the noble Lord to make no other comment. But it is an important issue. When, at this time, we are looking at the future of agriculture after a horrific experience 1026 across farming in this country, it is important to use opportunities not simply to recreate the previous pattern of agriculture but to look at what in the broadest sense can provide such environmental benefits. I know that the noble Lord is a passionate advocate of bio-fuels in that context.

§ Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, given the range of rethinking on agriculture that is now taking place, not least among those who have lost stock from foot and mouth disease, how does my noble friend think that suitable advice, including on organic farming, should play its part?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, provisions and advisory services already exist for those contemplating conversion to organic status. It is an important, long-term decision and it needs to be a soundly based business decision. However, the noble Lord is right to say that many people who lost stock during the foot and mouth outbreak need to think carefully and obtain high-quality business advice as regards their future, whether that is in organic production or something else. Yesterday, my right honourable friend announced the provision of particularly focused business advice for those who have lost stock in the recent foot and mouth outbreak.

§ Earl Ferrers
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the population of the world is likely to multiply four-fold during our lifetime and that if the premise of organic farming is carried out throughout the world it will be grossly extravagant and wasteful of space and will result in inadequate supplies of food being available for those who require it?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, the role of organic production in this country, where there is real consumer demand for it, is an important one which the Government rightly support. I have some sympathy with the view of the noble Earl. We need to look at all possible developments in agriculture to meet the challenges of feeding a vastly increased world population in the years to come.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that at the moment the United Kingdom meets only 30 per cent of the demand for organic produce and that organic farmers in many of the countries which supply the other 70 per cent are more heavily subsidised than ours?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. We supply a minority of our own market in organic production. That is one of the reasons why, in terms of sustainability, we have vastly increased support. Support for organic farming ran at just over £500,000 a year until 1997; this year we shall spend £18 million.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
My Lords, does the Minister agree that despite that support people vote with their shopping baskets for organic 1027 farming and demand still far outstrips supply? Does the Minister also agree that the Bill which set targets for organic conversion was a step in the right direction? Does she welcome the comments of Commissioner Fischler that CAP reform must be speeded up to bring about the environmental benefits which, as your Lordships' House reports so clearly underline, organic farming can deliver?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, certainly I agree with the noble Baroness so far as concerns CAP reform. But if there is such a buoyant market for organic produce the case for government subsidy is somewhat undermined.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, in the field of organic farming is it not even more crucial that the standards set throughout Europe and the world should be the same? There are different conversion rates and standards in various countries? Does the Minister agree that our farmers would be helped if the standard was based on a uniform unit and produce properly labelled so that consumers could make the correct choice?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, there are defined European standards about organic production. The responsibility for the enforcement of organic standards in this country lies with UKROFS. It is impossible to prevent people wanting higher standards. One can ensure that everything conforms to minima, but if organic certifying bodies and other organisations wish to impose higher standards themselves they have the right to do so.