§ 3.6 p.m.
§ Lord BlakerMy Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice. namely:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the current situation in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal)My Lords, we and our partners in the international community are extremely concerned about the ongoing conflict in Macedonia and condemn the violence perpetrated by armed ethnic Albanian extremists. We recognise the right of the Macedonian Government to use force, but it is important that that is proportionate to the threat and is focused on the armed extremists. However, there is no military solution to the crisis. We urge the Macedonian Government to take steps to address the legitimate political aspirations of the Albanian minority working with the ethnic Albanian parties in the government. KFOR is already taking Finn action on the border and the MoD is urgently considering what further support we can offer to the Macedonian Government bilaterally or with our allies through KFOR.
§ Lord BlakerMy Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that full reply. Is not Macedonia the most dangerous tinderbox of all of the tinderboxes in the former Republic of Yugoslavia because of the Albanian minorities in so many neighbouring countries? Are we not in debt to Macedonia because of the help that it gave us during the Kosovo campaign and because it is now virtually the sole avenue of supply to KFOR in Kosovo?
I believe that most noble Lords would agree with the Minister in condemning the violence of the Albanian guerrilla fighters. I also believe that we are right to encourage the Macedonian Government—I believe that this is what the Minister said—to take political steps to meet the aspirations of the Albanians, who constitute one third of the population. Is there not a danger that the moderate Albanian leaders who exist will have suffered in influence as a result of the recent 101 fighting? Is that not a very good reason for doing everything that can be done to prevent further fighting?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Lord that it is of the utmost importance to do all that we can to prevent further fighting. I also agree that the Albanian situation is very difficult—the noble Lord described it as a tinderbox. As such, we have to deal with it very judiciously.
Although there have been real difficulties in Macedonia, I hope that I can reassure noble Lords. On Sunday, the Macedonian army launched an operation to retake the hills above Tetovo. That appears to have been a success and there does not appear to have been any civilian deaths as a result of that enterprise. The steps taken by the Macedonian Government have been given wholehearted support by Albanian minority members, who are part of that government. That must be a positive indicator for the future.
We are doing everything that we can, together with our international partners, to support the Macedonian Government in their proportionate and proper response. At the same time, it is right for us to recognise that the Albanian minority have some legitimate concerns, which it is incumbent on the Macedonian Government to address.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, I understand that our troops could be involved in armed conflict. Under whose command do they serve?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, the noble Lord will know that our forces in Kosovo are part of the KFOR effort. Their ability to respond will be under the same command as it is at the moment. There will be no change.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonDoes my noble friend agree that the Albanians in Kosovo have been encouraged, and perhaps are still being encouraged, to believe that if they keep up their terrorist activity they will eventually gain an independent Kosovo and a greater Albania? Can my noble friend say whether the British Government and NATO are making it absolutely plain to the Albanians that there is no prospect of either an independent Kosovo or a greater Albania independent of Serbia?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, although I hear what my noble friend says in relation to people encouraging a change, I can assure him that there will be no change. Macedonia and Yugoslavia have been clearly told that their integrity will be preserved. Anyone who believes that a greater Albania can be created by starting a bloody war is quite wrong.
§ Lord Howell of GuildfordMy Lords, further to the questions of both my noble friends, will the Minister accept that the Government of Macedonia must be supported in defending the integrity of its frontiers? Once frontiers in the Balkans start being disputed, we 102 go straight back to the blood baths of the past. Will she also accept that the movement of British troops up into the frontier areas to do the policing indicates a new phase in Britain's as well as NATO's involvement in what is an increasingly dangerous situation? Can the Minister give us some idea of the longer-term plan? Is there not a need for a more robust NATO strategy as to what is to be achieved in the future? If it is not to be an independent Kosovo, what kind of Kosovo is it to be? How long will our troops be left defending those frontiers? These disputes have been going on since Roman times. Are we doomed to stay there for ever or is there a plan for a more stable future?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, I hope I can reassure the noble Lord that this is not a "new" phase. Of course it is right that we should do our best to assist those who wish to stabilise the Balkans and bring back a degree of normality. That was and remains our purpose. The longer-term plan involves the building of capacity. We have to support civil society. We have to make sure that the institutions are working appropriately so that the people of the Balkans can take their future into their own hands in a way that is proportionate and proper but which also allows all ethnic minorities to find their proper place.
As the noble Lord is aware, one of the difficulties is the struggle that the Albanian minority have faced in having their proper place recognised. We understand that the Macedonian Government accept that there is a need for change. They are looking creatively to bring about that change and, in relation to long-term strategy, our support for those efforts is the quickest way of ensuring that these troubles finally come to an end.
§ Baroness Williams of CrosbyMy Lords, does the Minister agree that there are some more hopeful signs in this disturbing situation? Is it not correct that the leaders not only of the Albanian minority in the Macedonian Government, but also the leaders within Kosovo of the Albanian majority—Ibrahim Rugova and others—indicated that they do not wish in any way to be involved in terrorist or guerrilla activities? Is it also the case that the Macedonian president, in the recent past, advanced proposals for providing greater guarantees of human rights for the Albanian minority? Finally, is it correct that Macedonia looks to the possibility of membership of the European Union as its major ambition and goal and in that respect therefore is anxious to uphold human rights in a way that would make it an acceptable candidate at some date in the future?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, I am glad to agree with all that the noble Baroness says. It is a hopeful sign that it is not just the Albanians in Macedonia who support this, it is also the Kosovo Albanians. We hear a united voice of reason from the people against the terrorists. That must give us great courage and hope for the future.
§ The Earl of OnslowMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the root cause of this problem was the 103 wretched Albanians siding with the Ottoman Turks in the first and second Balkan wars? The Slays carved them up, leaving them in difficulties and so their territorial and nationalist ambitions were deeply restrained.
That is the historical background. Can the Minister explain how, when NATO has as many troops in Kosovo as Great Britain had in India in 1938, a number of men were allowed to cross the border while being watched by NATO troops? If it is necessary to have troops there, we should ensure that they are used properly and that they do not allow people to cross the border, even though the whole border is a muddle in that part of the world.
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, again I hear what the noble Earl says and thank him for the history lesson. But the truth is that our forces are employed in many tricky activities on that side of the border. This issue is being addressed and addressed properly. In fact, I should like to take this opportunity to wholeheartedly congratulate our forces on the work that they are undertaking with great courage and fortitude.
§ Lord GilbertMy Lords, does my noble friend accept that some of us find it very strange that Macedonia, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina were allowed to break away from Yugoslavia, but that Kosovo alone is told that it may not break away, particularly in light of its experience at the hands of the Serbs?
§ Baroness Scotland of AsthalMy Lords, I understand my noble friend's question, but this is an area which has perennially caused difficulties, as he knows well from when he was in another position on this Front Bench. There has been an improvement in the situation. The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia indicated that it is open to negotiations with other minorities to try to obtain a political solution to what has been an impasse for a long time. My noble friend will know that it is a political solution which will finally bring peace to this region and not a military solution.