§ 3.3 p.m.
§ Lord Monro of Langholmasked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they have requested the Boundary Commission to ensure that new parliamentary constituencies in Scotland are ready before the next general election.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, it is a matter for the Boundary Commission itself when it next reports, within the statutory framework which requires it to submit a report to the Secretary of State for Scotland between December 2002 and December 2006.
§ Lord Monro of LangholmMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. The 1986 Act was passed 13 years before the establishment of the Scottish Parliament. Matters have moved on and are rather more urgent. Is the Minister aware that, on 6th October 1998, the Minister in charge of the Scotland Bill made it clear (at col. 359) that, under the terms of the 1986 Act, the earliest that the Boundary Commission could report would be 2002, but that it was more likely to take three years because it was a major reorganisation? Why is the timetable slipping? It looks as though it will take three general elections before the Government fulfil the promises set out in the 1986 Act.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, the timetable is not slipping. The 1986 Act requires that the report should be submitted between December 2002 and December 2006. I have every expectation that the Boundary Commission, which is independent of government, will accord with the 1986 Act.
§ The Earl of Mar and KellieMy Lords, is the Minister aware of the knock-on effect that a reduction in the number of MSPs would have on the much-acclaimed committee system of the Scottish Parliament? I believe that the pool of committee members would be reduced by 17. Will the Minister assure the House that he will bring forward amendments to Schedule 1 to the Scotland Act to prevent such damage to the committee system occurring?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, the noble Earl is a jump ahead of the Boundary Commission. 472 The commission's responsibility is to report as regards the Westminster Parliament; and that is what it will do. That was the basis of the original Question. On Tuesday, we debated to some extent the matter of any knock-on effect on the Scottish Parliament. I made it clear then, in the presence of the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament, that, so far as concerns any representations that may be made in relation to the Boundary Commission's report, the Government have an open mind as to the consequential effect on the committee structure of the Scottish Parliament. I do not believe that at this stage, or even ever, it is a matter for this Government.
§ Lord Hughes of WoodsideMy Lords, will my noble friend accept that the Scotland Act was a carefully balanced piece of legislation? It followed years of discussion in the Scottish Constitutional Convention. The pact, as it were, between Westminster and the Scottish Parliament was agreed before the establishment of the Scottish Parliament. I ask the Minister not to listen to the siren voices of those in the Scottish Parliament who now want to protect their own interests and cast aside willy-nilly their solemnly accepted agreements.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I do not intend to go any further than I have done in saying that the Government have an open mind as regards any representations that might be received, whether they are "siren voices" or not.
§ Baroness BlatchMy Lords, does the Minister agree that there is an air of cynicism on the part of English people in this country? We understood it to be settled policy that when devolution came about there would be a "replacement" policy; that is, that the numbers of Scottish MPs at Westminster would be reduced, and indeed that there would be a reduction in the number of MSPs in the Scottish Parliament.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I do not know about any air of cynicism among English people. The Scotland Act states that the number of MPs in Scottish seats in the Westminster Parliament will be reduced, and it will be. That is the remit of the Boundary Commission. I have already replied several times on the hypothetical question of what representations might be made by the Scottish Parliament about its own size. I do not believe that there is any cynicism—and I speak as one who is half English and half Scots by origin.
§ Lord GreavesMy Lords, most people in the north of England do not in any way begrudge the degree of home rule that Scotland now has, or indeed the very real benefits that have come from that home rule for the people of Scotland—not least due to the actions of my colleagues in Scotland.
§ Lord GreavesWell, my Lords, more than "not least". However, will not people get very fed up indeed 473 if the strong over-representation of Scotland in the House of Commons continues after the next election? Does the Minister understand that it will be seen, at least by people in the north of England, as blatant gerrymandering on behalf of the Labour Party?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, the noble Lord presumes too much in two directions: first, in claiming credit for the Scotland Act when it was a Labour government who enacted the legislation; and secondly, in assuming that this Government have, or should have, any influence on the way in which the Boundary Commission conducts its work. There is a window of four years in which the commission is to work. It would be a constitutional outrage—a phrase commonly used in this House in the previous Parliament—if the Government were to intervene in any way either to speed up or to slow down the work of the independent Boundary Commission. It would be even more of an outrage coming from this House than it would coming from an elected Chamber.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, pending the recommendations of the Boundary Commission, does the Minister agree that it would be a welcome move if Scottish MPs were voluntarily to abstain from voting upon purely English domestic matters?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I assume that the noble Lord is talking about Members sitting for Scottish seats in the Westminster Parliament. The Government have always made it clear that their view is that all Members of Parliament are equal.