HL Deb 02 July 2001 vol 626 cc619-21

2.50 p.m.

Lord Gordon of Strathblane

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What plans they have to ensure that the football matches of the World Cup finals are available to viewers on a free to air basis on terrestrial television.

The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Blackstone)

My Lords, the whole of the World Cup finals tournament is a listed event under Part IV of the Broadcasting Act 1996. Under that legislation the Independent Television Commission will ensure that a non-free to air broadcaster—or a free to air broadcaster which covers less than 95 per cent of the population—can show any part of the tournament live only if a free to air broadcaster with at least 95 per cent coverage had either acquired similar rights or been given the opportunity to do so on fair and reasonable terms.

Lord Gordon of Strathblane

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. She is, of course, aware that for the first time the rights for the World Cup have been won not by the EBU but by a private organisation which has indicated recently that it intends to hold an auction of those rights in the UK. That organisation, Kirch, has further indicated that it is taking the UK Government to the European Court of First Instance because it regards the listing of all 64 matches as unreasonable. In those circumstances is the Minister confident that we have sufficient statutory backing for the ITC to enforce government policy in this matter?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I reassure my noble friend that the Government are confident that they do have sufficient legal backing. His comments contained one inaccuracy. Kirch, the media organisation that purchased the rights from FIFA, is not taking the UK Government but rather the Commission to the European Court. However, we and the ITC have made Kirch and potential UK broadcasters fully aware of the extent of our legislation and the ITC's code on listed events. That should be sufficient to guarantee that the legislation is adhered to.

Lord Faulkner of Worcester

My Lords, is the Minister aware that if neither England nor Scotland qualify for the finals of the World Cup in 2002, under the arrangements that exist at present with the German organisation Kirch it is likely that terrestrial viewers in Britain will see no more than four matches out or all those played? Will the noble Baroness make clear that the ITC is able to insist that the rights for free-to-view broadcasting will be retained with regard to the United Kingdom even if not elsewhere in the European Union?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, what my noble friend says is not entirely accurate. I understand that the BBC and ITV have bid jointly for the rights to broadcast the whole of the World Cup series and not just the final and semi-final.

Lord Brookman

My Lords, will the Minster agree that great sports are no longer able to be seen on terrestrial television? For example, the British Lions matches and Test matches are not available to the British public as they once were. Does the noble Baroness agree that that is not a good thing?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, as a sports fan I am all in favour of as many of these events as possible being shown on terrestrial television and available to as many people as possible. However, as my noble friend is aware, a number of the major events are listed. Perhaps my noble friend is a rugby fan and wishes to watch the British Lions. In 1998 the previous government extended for the first time to Rugby Union football, although not the British Lions, listed coverage. It is now possible to see, for example, the Rugby Union World Cup. It is on list B.

Lord McNally

My Lords, is it not a fact that those who administer those sports would rather take the fast buck of pay-to-view television than make the sports a national, shared experience? However, they will be the long-term losers. Will the noble Baroness clarify the point about the rights being on fair terms? Who defines the fair terms? If the terms are not fair, will the British Government block pay-to-view television in this country? It would be unacceptable for terrestrial television to pay through the nose, distorting their finances. Although it would be a shame, but not a national disaster, not to get the World Cup rights, it would be a national disaster to pay through the nose.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I accept the noble Lord's tenor. I understand that the BBC and ITV have put in a renewed bid. They wish to negotiate with Kirch, the media company which holds the rights. They have offered somewhat more. However, I understand that they do not intend to increase their bid any further. They wait to hear from Kirch. It is possible that Kirch will want to proceed to an auction. I understand that it is very unlikely that any non-terrestrial company will want to bid in that auction.

Lord Luke

My Lords, I understand that in 1996 Kirch bought the rights for the 2002 and 2006 World Cup matches. Since 1998 negotiations have taken place between it and the BBC and ITV. Is the Minister aware of any progress on similar negotiations with other members of the EU? Surely we could get together and try not to be bullied into what has been suggested.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I confirm that Kirch purchased these rights from FIFA a few years ago; I am not sure whether the precise date was 1996. The noble Lord makes a good point about the possibility of getting in touch with other terrestrial broadcasting organisations in other European Union countries. I shall see what the position is on that.