Air Transport Industry (Hansard, 14 January 2001)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions (Lord Falconer of Thoroton)
My Lords, the aviation industry is vital for prosperity, but can affect the environment too. Our policy is to promote improved standards for noise and emissions at source; to encourage noise control at airports through local consultation; and where appropriate to regulate directly. The aviation industry should meet the external costs it imposes. The air transport White Paper, later this year, will establish a framework for the long-term sustainable development of aviation in the United Kingdom.

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
My Lords, that is a very satisfactory Question, as far as it goes, and I thank the Minister for it.

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
My Lords, is the Minister aware that, although aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, it pays no tax on the petrol that it uses? Should not something be done about that too?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I hope the noble Lord meant that it was a satisfactory Answer as far as it went rather than a satisfactory Question.

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
Both!

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I agree entirely. The point about greenhouse gas is an important one. We need to identify what steps can be taken to reduce it. That involves working with the international civil aviation organisations, which Britain is doing. This country is taking a lead in trying to reduce emissions as much as possible.

§ Earl Peel
My Lords, is the Minister aware of a recent report by the Countryside Alliance indicating that, entirely due to distortions in fuel tax, a farmer moving a load of apples to his local market pays more 826 in fuel tax than a supermarket does if it flies in a load of apples from South Africa? Is not that an absurd situation?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, that is a most interesting question. I was totally unaware of such a report. I am unable to know whether it is right or wrong and what the comparison is. The noble Earl's question goes rather wide of that on the Order Paper, which relates to the aviation industry—noble Lords shake their heads, but it was about fuel in relation to the rural economy. I do not know about the comparison referred to, which is somewhat wide of the Question.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend recognise—I speak as the president of BALPA—that the airline industry and the trade unions do their best to mitigate the problem of noise? Sometimes they may make mistakes, but on the whole I wish—as I hope my noble and learned friend does—that other industries would copy their example.

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I entirely recognise the efforts made by pilots to reduce noise, as far as it is possible for them to do so—for example, in the way that landing and take-off occur. It is a problem from which other industries could learn.

§ The Lord Bishop of Hereford
My Lords, perhaps I may press the Minister to add to the answer that he gave to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont. Bearing in mind the parlous state of the airline industry and the need not to disadvantage our own airlines, is it possible for the Government to take the lead internationally not only in attempting to reduce emissions, but also in attempting to impose tax on aviation fuel? The Minister did not make that commitment. Is it the Government's intention to do so?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I did not make any commitment one way or the other because I am obviously not in a position to do so. It is not my intention to make a commitment one way or the other. Emissions from aircraft are an important issue. The right reverend Prelate is right to draw attention to the fact that the airline industry is under pressure, for reasons known to all of us. This matter should he addressed primarily on an international basis.

§ Baroness Scott of Needham Market
My Lords, in answer to a Question in another place on regional flight surcharges, the Minister replied that it was simply a matter of customers shopping around. In view of the comprehensive Answer given earlier by the noble and learned Lord, does he stand by the assertion that associated issues such as ground congestion and noise are really just a matter for market forces?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I made it clear in my Answer that noise, for example, should be dealt with, if possible, by local agreement; namely,
827 with the people affected by the noise. Where local agreement is not possible, as has proved to be the case, the Government have to use their powers under the 1982 Act—which they have done from time to time. So I do not think that a reference to market forces is the right way to approach the issue of noise, nor has anyone suggested that it is.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, perhaps I may press the Minister further. He said that the Government are taking a lead internationally. What plans are in hand, what consultations are taking place and how quickly will we have some response to them so that we can debate the issue further in this House?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, for example, Article 2.2 of the Kyoto Protocol requires states to work through the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The United Kingdom has been at the forefront of work to promote stringent, technically feasible and economically reasonable standards in that respect.

§ Lord Rotherwick
My Lords, did the Minister know that if one was to buy a light aircraft in Germany with a silencer attached to it that had been certified under the same JAR regulations as apply to planes in this country, the authorities in this country would require that silencer to be removed and put through a whole new certification programme? If we are leading the world and doing so with the world, should we not start setting a lead in reducing noise by not having to have silencers recertified?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I do not have the noble Lord's experience in buying light aircraft, so I do not know the differing regimes on silencers. I shall write to him about that.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, may I press the Minister further on his response to my question? He did not answer it. I hope that he is able to do so. If not, will he please write to me?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I thought that I had answered that question. It is not appropriate for me to go through the specific heads of each technical proposal. I am saying that we are taking the lead in relation to the work in the ICAO.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, irrespective of whether the noble and learned Lord believes that the question asked by my noble friend Lord Peel was outside the terms of the main Question, will he write to my noble friend and deal with the issue that he raised?

§ Lord Falconer of Thoroton
My Lords, I think that the noble Earl's question was about an issue that is completely separate from the main Question.