Developing Countries: Aid Programmes (Hansard, 20 December 2001)

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Chancellor has argued for a significant increase in development aid from all donor countries and international institutions to address the long-term causes of poverty in the poorest countries. It is right that there is a full discussion between donor countries and the IMF, the World Bank and the United Nations as we prepare for the Financing for Development Conference at Monterrey in March 2002.

§ Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Perhaps I may press him further on the air defence deal for Tanzania, one of the poorest countries in the world, which was mentioned by the noble Lord. Lord Avebury, in relation to an earlier Question. Does the Minister agree that that undermines this Marshall Plan's objectives and the Government's new commitment to humanitarian aid to Africa?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
No, my Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Astor, cannot press me any further. I told the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, that I do not know any more than I have read in the newspapers. No official decision has been taken.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, the Questions today appear to be alternating between the issues of the elimination of waste and the elimination of poverty—which, I suggest, is in itself a form of waste. Does my noble friend agree that any aid programmes to the developing world would be greatly assisted by the more important step of improving the terms of trade? Can he say whether the Government agree with the suggestion arising from the World Trade Organisation meeting at Qatar that subsidised agricultural exports to the developing world should be eliminated, thus preventing the ruination of millions of traditional farmers in the developing world?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Government agree very strongly with my noble friend. Indeed, that was one of the themes of the international conference at Doha. It is clear that it is not only the size of development assistance that matters but how it is made effective. It must go to low income countries with sound economic management; it must support a strategy designed and led by the national government, 356 which adds to the point made by my noble friend Lord Rea; and, as I have said before, it should be dissociated from the award of government contracts.

§ Lord Redesdale
My Lords, can the Minister explain why there is a later divergence between the amount committed by the international community over the years and the amount achieved in cash terms?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, a percentage of GNP is a moving target in itself; as it goes up it becomes more difficult to keep up the proportion of ODA as a percentage of GDP. International comparisons are difficult. Most countries produce their figures in financial years rather than in calendar years and it is sometimes difficult to make the comparison. On the whole, we do fairly well. The OECD percentage was 0.22 per cent; the G7 average is 0.19 per cent; ours this year is 0.31 per cent.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords—

§ Lord Alton of Liverpool
My Lords, would the Minister—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, if we take the noble Baroness, Lady Rawlings, first, and then the noble Lord, Lord Alton, we can get both questions in.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House from where the money will come if it is not from other government departments or from raising taxes?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the spending review 2000 allocated a budget to the Department for International Development. That figure is not quite the same as the amount of ODA because only about 90 per cent of the DfID budget counts as ODA. However, there is additional spending—from, for example, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—which counts as ODA.

§ Lord Alton of Liverpool
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the generosity, the altruism and the idealism that inspired the Marshall Aid programme during the post-war period, prompted mainly by the United States of America, was one of the reasons for the stability and prosperity of western Europe in the post-war period? Does he further agree that a similar sense of idealism is now needed for the reconstruction of civil society in countries such as Afghanistan and Cambodia, which have suffered so grievously from conflict? Does he specifically agree that the need to clear land mines in those countries and other war-torn countries is a major developmental issue; that without the removal of those land mines it will be impossible for land to be tilled and used again in the future; and that civilian populations will continue to sustain major injuries as a result of those land mines?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I agree very strongly with the noble Lord about the altruism 357 expressed in the Marshall Plan. That is exactly why the Chancellor used that analogy in his speech on Monday. As to land mines, the noble Lord is right—you cannot get agriculture going again unless they have been cleared. This is a problem which appears to be getting worse rather than better in some parts of the world.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, how can the Minister say it becomes more difficult to reach the target as our GDP goes up. The amount of money one has to spend on necessities remains the same. As one gets richer one has more to spare. It should become easier and the target should be raised.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I accept that point. All I am saying is that £100 million is roughly 0.01 per cent of GDP. As GDP goes up, two things happen: first, it needs more than £100 million to reach the percentage; and, secondly, as the noble Lord, Lord Elton, rightly said, there is more money available to do it. That is what the Chancellor is committed to doing.