Faith Schools (Hansard, 10 December 2001)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Baroness Ashton of Upholland)
My Lords, we shall require promoters of new faith schools to have local support and to demonstrate how they will be inclusive and work in partnership with other schools. We consider that approach to be more appropriate than directly copying Northern Ireland's integrated school system. Promoters of new schools must carry out detailed consultation with the local community and interested parties.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Will she note that I was not suggesting a direct copy of Northern Ireland? Would she be prepared to consult her ministerial colleague there on this whole matter, and does she agree that inter-religious schooling in England is highly desirable?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, indeed, we consult colleagues in all departments on issues that are appropriate and relevant. We acknowledge that there are 20 or so existing Roman Catholic and Church of England schools in England, as referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Hylton. The noble Lord is right to draw attention to existing joint-faith schools which bring together children of Christian faith. It is worth noting that a key aspect of the success of these schools is their ability to work together on shared aims through mutual respect in order to secure the best education for their children.

§ Lord Dubs
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the lessons of Northern Ireland is that educating children separately has a damaging effect on community relations and on the attitude of one religion towards another? Does she accept that the concerns in relation to a move to faith schools are that such schools would not easily be inclusive and that they might lead to increased segregation in this country without necessarily following any Northern Ireland model?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Dubs knows well, at present 4 per cent of Northern Ireland's pupil population attends integrated schools. The general policy in Northern Ireland is that children should be educated in accordance with their parents' wishes. That is reflected in the different schools which exist in Northern Ireland, including maintained, controlled, integrated and Irish medium schools. All schools, regardless of whether they have a particular religious designation, should further understanding of the diversity of national, religious and ethnic identities in the UK and the need for mutual respect and tolerance. That is exactly how we would approach this issue in England.

§ The Lord Bishop of Southwark
My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that there is a long tradition of 1134 Church schools in England, which serve the whole local community and not only the children of practising Christians?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I agree with the right reverend Prelate that there is, indeed, a long-standing and widely accepted tradition of faith schools in this country. Christian faith schools have a significant history as part of the state education system and play an important role in its diversity. We consider that it would be wrong to deny members of other faiths access to schools of their faith.

§ Lord Dearing
My Lords, I declare an interest as the chair of the committee of the Church of England that recommended an increase in the number of that Church's secondary schools. Is the Minister aware that at a meeting of the General Synod of that Church last month a resolution was passed which welcomed an ecumenical approach to those additional schools? The resolution stated that the schools should serve the whole nation and should be open to children from the diverse communities that they serve.

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I am aware of the work of the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, and of the resolutions that were passed by the General Synod. The Government welcome the emphasis that the noble Lord gave in his report to the Archbishops' Council to the principles of social and religious inclusiveness. We were delighted to see that that was reinforced in a resolution of the General Synod on 14th November which noted that Church schools should be open to the diverse communities that they serve. That is an important part of education in this country.

§ Lord Smith of Clifton
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the situation in Northern Ireland is diametrically opposed to that which obtains in England; namely, it has de facto religious education with a very small integrated school element? Here, by and large, we have a large integrated school element and relatively few faith schools. Does she agree that the experience of Northern Ireland, as outlined by the noble Lord. Lord Dubs, suggests that we should be very wary about the development of faith schools in this country?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I ask noble Lords to be cautious in suggesting that somehow faith schools are a cause of other things. We should be careful about heaping on to the heads of schools responsibility for other aspects of segregation. Many socio-economic factors lead to tensions in our community. We need to be clear that faith schools should play an important role in their communities in terms of working in partnership with schools of faith and of none. That is something that we would be keen to see and to promote.

§ Baroness Massey of Darwen
My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has spoken about community 1135 involvement and community consultation. Can she explain what will be the role of school governors in the new schools?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, as the noble Baroness will know from being a school governor, school governors play an important and vital role in all schools. We would expect them to be mindful of the ethos of the school and of the way in which we expect those schools to participate in their local communities. It is a longstanding tradition for schools of all kinds to be part of their community. We expect school governors to ensure that their school participates in the community with schools of other faiths, that the teaching of citizenship is fully carried out within the school and that the ethos of tolerance is part of how every school develops.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, as one who arrived at Eton having never knowingly met a Conservative, does the Minister agree that segregation of any kind makes the life of schoolchildren harder than it need be?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, the noble Earl puts his question extremely well. It is important to be clear about what we mean by segregation and to understand that children need to grow up with traditions, understanding and tolerance. But they do so from a background of history, tradition and culture. For many children, that includes a religious background. Therefore, we need to ensure that they meet as equals; that all our children are educated and are able to be educated without fear in the school system; and that we have respect for the diversity of education in this country.