HL Deb 10 April 2001 vol 624 cc1059-60

11.11 a.m.

Earl Russell asked Her Majesty's Government:

What proportion of the reduction in the claimant count for unemployment since 1997 is the result of people entering employment.

The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)

My Lords, changes in the stock of employment result from huge flows of people both into and out of employment, unemployment and inactivity. Since 1997, while unemployment is down by over 500,000, employment has risen by over 1 million. Employment has increased by more than the fall in unemployment because some job growth has been absorbed by people joining the labour force, for example, women returners, young people leaving education and returners from early retirement.

Earl Russell

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is she also in a position to assist the House by giving further figures for those who have left the claimant count because, for reasons of age, they are no longer required actively to seek work? Other reasons may be that they have moved on to incapacity benefit or they have been excluded from the claimant count due to benefit sanctions.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I cannot give the House those statistics. I shall be very happy to write to the noble Earl and set out the statistics for him in full.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, can the Minister give the House an indication of when the Government propose to use, on a consistent basis, the ILO figures for unemployment—which are their preferred way of expressing unemployment—instead of continuing to use the claimant count, which was a statistical device employed by the previous administration in order to hide the true figures of unemployment?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, the Government use both the claimant count and ILO figures. We do so in the monthly announcements about the levels of employment and unemployment. The numbers of unemployed on the claimant count now stand at 3.4 per cent. That is the lowest level since 1975. However, as I said, we do not look only at the claimant count. The numbers of ILO unemployed—that is, those seeking and available for work—have fallen by more than 500,000 since May 1997. That is the lowest figure for 20 years and now stands at 5.2 per cent. It is perhaps important to note that long-term youth claimant unemployment—those who have been unemployed for six months or more—has been virtually eradicated. It has fallen by approximately 75 per cent since May 1997 and is at its lowest level for 25 years. That is a pretty good record.

Lord McCarthy

My Lords, does the Minister agree that part of the confusion in the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, arises from the fact that we still publish these two different indices? Is it not time that we abandoned the claimant count, which was systematically manipulated by the previous government and is less and less representative of what is happening in the labour market?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, it is true that employment and unemployment statistics lost credibility under the previous government as a result of the constant changes that were made in order to try to bring down the figures of unemployed people, which were at about 3 million in the early 1990s. However, we believe that it is legitimate to use the claimant count alongside the ILO figures because it indicates how many people are claiming benefit and how the numbers of those claiming benefit have either increased or decreased, which is important for the public and Parliament to know.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, if the Government are so vocal about the claimant count being discreditable, why do they still continue to produce it after four years.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I have just answered that question. I do not need to repeat my answer.

Lord Marlesford

My Lords, is not the real triumph for Britain's restructuring the fact that since the war some 4 million jobs in the eight basic industries have been lost and that nearly all those jobs have been recreated in modern form?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, in my answer I should like to comment on what has happened since the Government came to power in 1997. There has been an increase in the overall number of jobs of 300,000—a very substantial increase—and some jobs have, of course, been lost. So restructuring is taking place. That will always be the case in a stable and flexible economy. It is important that we now have stability, a reasonable level of growth, low inflation and low unemployment figures.