Women Doctors (Hansard, 16 October 2000)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath)
My Lords, there is no evidence that women doctors in the National Health Service are more or less productive than their male counterparts. There is no doubt about the crucial role that women play in the health service, and their contribution is widely recognised.

§ Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply. Does he agree that the recent claim made by Philip Hammond, a Conservative spokesperson on health, that women doctors are less productive than their male counterparts during their careers in the NHS should be strongly refuted? I have received a number of irate telephone calls about this statement from colleagues, women doctors in the health service and from my own union, the medical practitioners section of MSF. Does my noble friend further agree that such statements are particularly unhelpful at a time when both the Government and the Royal College of Surgeons are attempting to attract more women doctors into the service?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, my noble friend is right to refer to the words of Mr Hammond. He was certainly less than sensitive in using the words, you will get less work out of those females". 666 Not much sign there of inclusivity and not much encouragement to women doctors in the health service.

§ Earl Howe
My Lords, before anyone misattributes an argument to a member of the Opposition—a perfectly daft argument as it has been expressed, I have to say—would it not be wise to check what is the actual argument? Is the Minister aware that the issue is not whether women consultants are less efficient than men—which is an absurd suggestion—but whether, for the purposes of workforce planning, due allowance should be made for the fact that far more women consultants than men work part-time? Have the Government taken account of that?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, nevertheless, Mr Hammond could have chosen his words more wisely. On the noble Earl's substantive point, yes, we do take account in our workforce planning processes of the increasing trend among doctors of both sexes to work part-time and to take career breaks.

§ Baroness Northover
My Lords, is the Minister willing to set targets to increase the number of women surgeons, as proposed by Mr Barry Jackson, president of the Royal College of Surgeons? Does the Minister agree that flexible working patterns in the NHS would help male as well as female staff, their families and the service as a whole? Does he feel, as I do, that there are echoes of another century—perhaps not even the last one—in Mr Hammond's comments?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I agree that flexible working has to be an important human resource policy for the National Health Service as a whole, whether for doctors or any other group of NHS staff. We have made it abundantly clear to every NHS employer that we expect it to deliver flexible working. My understanding is that in September this year the president of the Royal College of Surgeons set a target for increasing the number of women in the profession from 5 per cent to 10 per cent over the next five years and to 20 per cent over the next 10 years. We very much support that proposal. I also understand that the Royal College of Physicians is reviewing the data on women in medicine to ensure that women doctors have equal opportunities in all branches of medicine—an approach that we strongly support and encourage.

§ Baroness Pitkeathley
My Lords, my noble friend mentioned flexible working. As the NHS is the largest employer in the country, will the Minister tell the House what progress is being made on other forms of family-friendly employment policies, such as elder care, childcare and so on, so that neither women nor men with family responsibilities will be disadvantaged?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, my noble friend will know that the Government are carrying out a review on how working parents can be given more choices in balancing their responsibilities at home and at work. It includes such issues as maternity pay and 667 leave, paternal leave, flexible working, skills re-entry and keeping in touch, and childcare. Nothing has been ruled out at this stage. In that context, we want the National Health Service to be a model employer. We want it to ensure appropriate support and career breaks for employees, enabling them to return to the health service and providing appropriate training and support when they are able to do so.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, will the Minister address the situation of young women GPs with small children who find that the person on whom they rely for help is ill and therefore unable to attend, which means that they have to cancel surgery or take the children with them? Has the National Health Service given any thought to providing emergency help in such situations in order to free up doctors so that they can carry out their health service duties?

Lord Hunt of King Heath
My Lords, the example given by the noble Baroness is one with which women in many walks of life are familiar. Certainly, we need to ensure that the National Health Service is as flexible as possible. There are particular challenges when it comes to GP practices where there may be a small number of principals and where such an incident can cause problems. The development of personal medical services is providing much more flexibility in the way in which GPs are employed—for example, through the use of salaried GPs and other methods.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in these days of movement towards equality, taking time off for domestic responsibilities is likely to be more equally divided between men and women and that, therefore, the arguments about workforce planning mentioned by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, are increasingly likely to apply not to the employment of women but to the employment of people?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I could not agree more. There are undoubtedly the beginnings of an indication that male doctors, too, seek career breaks and that they sometimes seek to reduce their full-time commitment to a part-time one. Our workforce planning needs to take account of changes in terms of NHS employment and changes in society in order to make sure that the right number of people are trained. I am confident that the extra number of training places in our medical schools brought into being by this Government, and those that will be brought into being over the next few years, will take account of that and will enable us to increase the workforce.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, sitting in this Chamber as one does, day in, day out, I am constantly amazed at the way in which problems have arisen on or after 1st May 1997! I wonder whether my noble friend can help me on this point. The noble Baroness opposite raised an issue about what happens to the children if one of the parents is away. No doubt when the Government came in they inherited a set of detailed proposals left 668 by the party opposite on how to deal with this difficult human and industrial problem. Will my noble friend share with us the details that were left to him?

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
He should he so lucky!

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the party opposite does seem to be suffering from a severe illness. It is known as collective and selective amnesia.