Organic Food (Hansard, 9 October 2000)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath)
My Lords, the Food Standards Agency, which is a non-ministerial government department, has a duty to promote consumer choice by providing independent, objective and impartial advice and information. The statement which the agency published recently on its website meets that obligation with regard to organic food.

§ Lord Dubs
My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that it remains the Government's policy to support the production of organic food? Do they agree that the reduced use of pesticides and fertilisers is good for both human health and the environment? Also, do they accept that increased production of organic foods would lead to economies of scale and therefore to lower prices for consumers? When all is said and done, for many of us organic foods taste better.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I agree that by increasing consumer choice and producing environmental benefits, organic farming can make an important contribution. However, no preferential 7 treatment is given to organic farming as there is no evidence that organic produce is safer or healthier than produce from non-organic farms. Government support for the organic sector takes account of evidence that the organic system of farming leads to certain environmental benefits.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, is the Minister aware that earlier today Radio 4 broadcast a moving dramatisation of the moment when the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, surrendered his seat as a result of a parliamentary defeat? Does he agree that this House was fortunate and that it would be a good thing if many other members of his party were to come to this House by the same route?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I cannot perceive any circumstance in which that will happen but no doubt we are all grateful to my noble friend for giving us his wisdom over a number of years in your Lordships' House.

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, to return to the Question on the Order Paper, does my noble friend agree that the FSA's position paper on organic food is well balanced and based on scientific evidence? Does he also agree that as such it is unlikely to please people at either end of the spectrum? At one end are the enthusiasts who believe that organic food not only tastes nicer—I agree with my noble friend that it does—but also that it is more nutritious, which some do not believe. At the other end are those who want to blacken the name of organic food—perhaps those in the agrichemical industry—and who say that it is responsible for infections because of its copious use of manure.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, my noble friend puts it very well. As a result of examining research data and available information, the FSA believes that there is insufficient information to be able to say that organic foods are significantly different in terms of safety and nutritional content from those produced by conventional farming. An important role of the FSA is producing advice to consumers. Consumers can then take 'hat into account and chose as they will.

§ Baroness Carnegy of Lour
My Lords, the Government have given the FSA an enormous amount of power. We shall hear a great deal about it and it will affect our lives greatly. I believe that in his Answer the Minister referred to the FSA as a non-government department. I do not know whether that was a slip of the tongue, but if he did say that what is it a department of?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I believe that I was right in referring to the FSA as a non-ministerial government department. It has been agreed that because of the importance of ensuring that advice in 8 this crucial area is as independent as possible the agency will be accountable to Parliament through health Ministers. Yes, it occupies an important role and I believe that the calibre of its board members is high. It plays a crucial role in ensuring food safety and that the public have the correct information.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, first, if the Minister is so keen on organically grown food, why are not the Government doing more to ensure that prices for it are lowered in supermarkets? Secondly, does he agree that if I popped an organically grown carrot into the mouth of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, followed by an ordinary carrot he would not be able to tell the difference?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, it is clear that noble Lords have differing views on how well—or not—organic food tastes. That is why it is a matter for individual consumer choice. The noble Baroness is right in saying that the costs of the production and handling of organic food can be higher and yields generally lower than in conventional agriculture. It is also right to say that the relatively low level of production means that economies of scale are not achieved. Those factors are reflected in the price of organic food. None the less, it is an important market in this country and I am sure that consumers will continue to enjoy it.

§ The Lord Bishop of Hereford
My Lords, granted that the Government give much support to organic farming—that is widely welcomed because many people are appreciative of organic food—can the Minister say what precise part the Government play in adjudicating on or defining what constitutes organic food? I believe that the Soil Association is the lead body in defining what is and is not allowed and that there is some variation of interpretation. How do the Government decide what qualifies as "organic"?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, organic food production and labelling are regulated by European standards. Foods may be called "organic" only if they come from registered producers, processors or importers. European Community regulations describe the inputs and practices which may be used in organic farming and growing and the inspection system which must be put in place to ensure that. The UK Register of Organic Food Standards administers the regulations in the UK. Its job is to ensure that the regulations are properly applied by the various bodies which register organic farmers and processors, including organisations such as the Soil Association.

Baroness Young
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in such matters it is most important to take scientific advice and to listen with great care to what such a committee, under a most distinguished chairman, says rather than allowing many prejudices either way to run away with the case?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I could not agree more. An important role of the FSA is to look at 9 all the robust evidence and information that are available and to provide advice to Ministers and, importantly, to the general public. It is worth referring to the report of your Lordships' Select Committee which considered organic farming and the EU, published in July last year. It emphasised that the organic label certifies that a product has been produced in a particular way but that it is no guarantee that it has certain desirable qualities. In other words, the report states that organic standards are based on the method of production and not on the characteristics of the finished product. That report is consistent with advice recently given by the FSA.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the same report clearly highlighted the benefits to the countryside, which is one of the reasons why the Government continue to expand their grant aiding of the organic sector, and the substantial animal welfare benefits which result from the higher standards required by organic producers?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I do not disagree. We must draw a distinction between what one might describe as the environmental factors in relation to organic farming and the issues which are the responsibility of the FSA. The FSA is concerned with safety issues and it reported on those issues.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, as the Minister said that the information available is insufficient to distinguish between conventional and non-conventional food production, what research is being undertaken and has the amount of such research been increased? Secondly, given that standards vary within the UK and between different shops, there is no clarity in our rules and regulations, so will the Government tighten up the rules relating to the conversion from conventional to organic farming because standards abroad are also different from those set by them?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the FSA has a research programme and I understand that the budget for 2000–01 is £21 million. Within that we would expect the agency to prioritise and to ensure that where the need for research is identified, such research can be commissioned and effectively delivered. The agency can also undertake literature reviews and surveys of other research, which is what it has done in this case.

§ Lord Jopling
My Lords, does the Minister share the anxieties of a great many people that the description "organic" as applied to imported food is, to put it politely, highly questionable?

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, my understanding is that all organic food production within the European Union must comply with standards laid down by the regulations to which I referred in a previous response. Countries outside the European Union can apply to be on a list of those which are judged to have standards of organic food 10 production equivalent to those in the EU. Six countries are currently on that list: Australia, Argentina, Switzerland, Israel, Hungary and the Czech Republic.