HL Deb 04 October 2000 vol 616 cc1553-8

(" .—(1) Where a person over the age of 18 years is convicted in England and Wales of an offence under section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 (rape), and where the victim was under the age of sixteen years at the time of the offence, the court shall impose a sentence of life imprisonment.

(2) The court may not impose the prescribed sentence specified in subsection (1) if it is of the opinion that there are specific circumstances which relate to the offence or the offender which would make the prescribed custodial sentence unjust in all the circumstances.").

The noble Baroness said: I know from the outset that the amendment will be controversial not only on the Government Benches but also on Liberal Democrat Benches and possibly on the Benches behind me. Many people—and I include myself—believe that the rape of a child is almost too awful to contemplate. The amendment is all about raping children and I know that the proposal will be controversial because it introduces a mandatory life sentence. However, it must be said that the Home Secretary, Mr Straw, has accepted the principle of mandatory sentences.

The importance of the amendment reflects the gross indecency and the seriousness of the crime of raping a child. I am sure that Members of the Committee will ask whether this sentence will work in the same way as a life sentence for murder works and whether the Home Secretary, a politician, will decide the tariff. I envisage that the courts will decide the tariff in this case.

Although life sentences are given, some offenders are released from prison after a relatively short time, depending on the seriousness of the offence. Nevertheless, if they are subject to a life sentence they are released on licence. That means that they will be supervised after release and should they display any behaviour which gives rise to concern that they may reoffend, they can he returned to prison.

A person who would rape a child is a dangerous criminal who deserves to be taken out of the community for a long time. Paedophiles who operate in that way are deceptive and manipulative. They are often respected in their communities. They are often the last people one would expect to see in court.

I remember being shocked when, visiting a bail hostel, I met someone who absolutely charmed me. He had travelled abroad a great deal and had pinned on the wall of his room moving letters from people who had appreciated his work abroad and photographs of children who were suffering from leprosy and with whom he had worked in the Third World. He had a record as a good school master, was very educated and had good books on his shelves. I asked why he was there. It was quite a touching story. I was told that I would not believe the horrific nature of his crimes. He had spent his sentence and had volunteered to go into the bail hostel on the ground that he could not then trust himself sufficiently to go out and live freely in the community. If I had not met someone who could tell me of his crimes, I would have believed him to be the kind of person with whom I could have trusted my children.

It is dreadful to think that a child has been raped by someone who was trusted. I believe that anyone who will deceive to that extent and act with such gross indecency should receive a severe sentence. The sentence can be determined by the court and I shall be happy to change my amendment to that effect at a later stage. However, I believe that such a person should be supervised throughout his life because we know that paedophiles are habitual, repeat offenders. I beg to move.

Lord Ackner

Perhaps I may say with deep and affectionate respect that the amendment is not necessary. If a court, as it may from time to time, undersentences the remedy exists by statute. It is the positive obligation of the Attorney-General in this class of case to bring proceedings before the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division). If I were the Attorney-General, I should feel deeply offended by the proposal because it presupposes that the Attorney-General is not doing his job. I see no reason why that assumption should be made.

If there is a case which justifies an appeal, the necessary application, supported by the appropriate material, can be provided to the Attorney-General, assuming that he is not moving on his own initiative. Therefore, there is every available remedy for dealing with the situation which the noble Baroness suggests. Subsection (2) of her new clause—and I commend her—provides a let-out to the court which considers that in all the circumstances not to impose imprisonment for life would be unjust.

However, having accepted that there should be that measure of discretion, I cannot see why on earth the noble Baroness is not content with the Attorney-General's powers to intervene. Accordingly, I suggest that the amendment is unnecessary.

Lord Thomas of Gresford

With deep respect to the noble Baroness, I cannot support her amendment. There are infinite varieties of the offence of rape but it is difficult to get that understood. It is not the case that every person over the age of 18 who has penetration with a girl under the age of 16 is a paedophile. The very wording of the new clause reveals that the noble Baroness is aiming at the wrong target. Rape is of infinite circumstances.

In a serious case of rape, there is a presumption that a person will receive a life sentence. That is very much on the cards and it is just for that to happen. Under subsection (2) of the new clause, the discretion to impose a sentence less than life imprisonment is left open to the judge. Therefore, if the amendment were accepted, he would be in precisely the same position as he is today. Accordingly, the amendment can have no effect.

One sympathises with the intentions of the noble Baroness who wants to underline the disgust that people rightly feel for paedophile rape, but the definition set out goes much further.

Lord Goldsmith

Perhaps I may briefly add my voice to those who are concerned about the noble Baroness's amendment. I hope that she will not believe that the debate is simply lawyers taking a view about the merits of courts.

As the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said, the strong likelihood is that in the kind of case to which the noble Baroness referred—that of a person in a position of trust—the sentence is likely to be severe. However, it is unlikely that all cases fall into the same category. I believe that the noble Baroness accepts that in subsection (2), which leaves the court a discretion not to pass such a sentence.

I want to comment briefly on that point. The proposal is that the court has that discretion if it is of the opinion that there are specific circumstances which relate to the offence or offender which would make the prescribed custodial sentence unjust in all the circumstances. I am sure that the courts would operate that; indeed, they already do.

My concern is that setting a relatively low test to avoid the result of the mandatory sentence may bring the courts into disregard and disrespect in the minds of the public. The public will think that the offence ought to carry a sentence of life imprisonment and that Parliament has said so. Time and again the courts will not do so because the circumstances are at the other end of the scale from those to which the noble Baroness refers. That leads to the risk that the courts will not carry with the public the respect that they should have. That is an important feature of this proposal. I support the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ackner, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, who have suggested that, with respect, the noble Baroness should not press her amendment.

5.30 p.m.

Lord Monson

My interpretation of the case put by the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, was that she was concerned less with imposing long sentences in all cases than in having the ability to recall individuals to prison if they began to act in a suspicious way in relation to young people. Perhaps that interpretation is wrong, but I believe that that is what the noble Baroness is driving at.

Lord Bach

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this important issue. She will not be surprised when I invite her to withdraw the amendment. The short debate on the matter raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, has been to the point and of considerable importance.

I remind the Committee that the maximum penalty for the offence of rape is already life imprisonment. Section 2 of the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 provides an automatic life sentence for those convicted of a second rape irrespective of the age of the offender or victim. This reflects the Government's view that repeat offending in respect of serious violent and sexual offences must be dealt with severely by the courts and that, accordingly, a limit on the discretion of the courts is appropriate in that category of case. In view of those provisions the amendment is of relevance only to first time offenders.

The Government believe that judicial discretion is essential in sentencing first time offenders particularly in the case of sexual offences. That discretion may well arise in the case described by the noble Baroness where the judge uses his or her discretion to sentence a convicted defendant to life imprisonment. But to add to the number of offences for which mandatory sentences must be imposed is something that has always concerned Members of this House, whether lawyers or not. If possible we want to keep sentencing discretionary, not mandatory. Sometimes it must be mandatory but not, we believe, in this particular instance.

The amendment represents an unacceptably radical departure from the principles of effective sentencing policy. Automatic life sentences should be clearly exceptional and reserved for categories of case in which a limit on the discretion of the court is justified. We are not persuaded that that is so in this instance. All rapes are serious; nearly every such offence demands a severe prison sentence. Sex offences against children are of even graver concern. The Court of Appeal has issued comprehensive guidelines on sentencing in cases involving sexual offences. They make it crystal clear that the age of the victim is a relevant aggravating feature. As has been observed, this offence, which is always serious, covers a variety of different sets of circumstances; some terrible and others not terrible, although still very serious.

Reference has been made to subsection (2). We believe that in effect the provision for the exercise of discretion in specific circumstances, while understandable given the nature of the offending, will prove fatal to the intent of the amendment. We believe that the court, mindful of the fact that the offender is being sentenced for the first time, is likely to interpret "specific circumstances" more widely than in the case of repeat offenders, thereby severely reducing the impact and intended utility of the provision and thus demeaning the role of the court in society. A sentencing provision of this kind which proved to be effective in its purpose in only a proportion of cases to which it applied would not reflect good sentencing policy; in other words, a mandatory sentence, with which it would be comparatively easy to escape a life sentence, as it were, would not be a good sentence.

I refer the Committee to the report of the Sex Offences Review Setting the Boundaries. It is important that the structure of offences and penalties is looked at in the round to ensure effective and comprehensive protection. The review makes recommendations relating to rape. We do not believe that it would be appropriate to interfere with the current sentencing framework pending the outcome of that review which may result in recommendations affecting sentencing in rape cases. Where this Chamber has had to deal with possible new mandatory sentences for offences it has tended to move forward carefully and slowly. The Government do not believe that the case for this important change has been made out.

Lord Ackner

Before the Minister sits down, I note that he failed to refer to the Attorney-General. Is that because he has no confidence in the noble and learned Lord? That provides a simple answer not only to this case but to all mandatory life sentences. It is not limited to the single or repeat case but relates to all cases. Perhaps the Minister can help me.

Lord Bach

I have the highest regard for and confidence in the Attorney-General. I have to say that because he shall join me on the Front Bench in a fairly short period! The point that the noble and learned Lord raises in regard to this amendment is extremely well made. I apologise for not referring to it in my reply.

Lord Thomas of Gresford

Does the noble Lord also agree that there is a problem in obtaining convictions in rape cases? The public perception that there is a mandatory life sentence in less serious cases, to adopt the Minister's own expression, in the circumstances envisaged in this amendment may lead to juries acquitting. That is one of the problems that now arise in trials of rape cases.

Lord Bach

I believe that I used the expression "less terrible" rather than "less serious". However, the noble Lord makes a good point.

Baroness match

I was right on only one small point: nobody behind me weighed in on the amendment. I believe that there is genuine understanding of my revulsion at these offences. I made a distinction between two high school students and someone who raped a child. I referred to paedophilic rape and concentrated on the lifelong supervision of someone who despoiled the life of a young child.

Some powerful points have been made and the matter has been dealt with very sensitively, as I always expect it to be in this Chamber. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Baroness Blatch moved Amendment No. 107: After Clause 36, insert the following new clause—