HL Deb 30 March 2000 vol 611 cc910-2

3.30 p.m.

Lord Carter

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That Standing Order 40 (Arrangement of the Order Paper) be dispensed with this day to allow the Motions standing in the name of the Lord Bach to be taken last.—(Lord Carter.)

Lord Henley

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord, on behalf of the Leader of the House, can offer a slightly lengthier explanation of the need for this Business Motion. Is it not a fact that it deals with the education regulations and order to which my noble friend Lady Blatch will respond. Is it not also a fact that the regulations and the order were introduced by the Minister responsible only some two days ago? It was then announced by the Minister responsible that the regulations and the order had to go through by the end of the week. Having earlier been offered to my noble friend on a Friday two weeks ago, which my noble friend agreed to do, they were then withdrawn. Is it really a satisfactory way of doing business to force my noble friend to have to respond to two important provisions—one relating to student loans, a subject on which this House feels very deeply—at a very late hour at night? What can the Government Chief Whip say about the time at which the regulations and the order will come up?

We have before us the fifth and possibly—I only say "possibly"—the final Committee day on the Financial Services and Markets Bill. There are more than 30 groups of amendments. I am advised by those responsible for the Bill on this side of the House that there is certainly more than a whole day's business ahead of them in relation to that Bill. Will the noble Lord give an assurance that he will allow my noble friend Lady Blatch to respond to the regulations and the order at a reasonable time, so that she will not have to respond to them at two, three or four o'clock in the morning, and so allow the Financial Services and Markets Bill to be completed on another day, possibly next week?

Lord Carter

My Lords, the Motion is necessary to enable us to take the regulations and the order in the name of my noble friend Lord Bach at the end of business today. Under Standing Order 40, Unstarred Questions always come last. In order to take today's Unstarred Question before the regulations and order, it is necessary to suspend the standing order.

I had understood that the noble Lord opposite was happy with that arrangement. It is true that the regulations and the order were tabled only on Tuesday. I can explain the reason why they need to be taken so quickly. They come into force tomorrow and they have already been agreed by another place. Attempts were made to find the time to debate them earlier this month, but no mutually convenient time could be found. Having said that, now it is clear that we are running out of time, I understand that the Opposition Front Bench has been extremely helpful and flexible in finding a time to debate the regulations and the order before the deadline. I am grateful for that co-operation.

As regards today's business, there are 30 groups of amendments. There were 30 groups on the third Committee day and we rose at 10 o'clock.

Lord Henley

My Lords, that is certainly not satisfactory. My noble friend agreed the time of the regulations and the order. It is the duty of the Minister to come to the House to push her orders. It is not a matter of finding a mutually agreeable time. Ministers are always available to the House. Ministers' first duty is to the House. If my noble friend could not agree with the Government Whips' Office an appropriate time to take the regulations and the order, the Minister should have been here. It is only fair for the Chief Whip to tell us exactly who is responsible for putting us in this mess and forcing the House to debate at a very late hour matters that are of considerable importance. What is the noble Lord going to do at 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock tonight if three, four, five or six hours are still required for the Financial Services and Markets Bill? Will he come to the House and agree to suspend that business to allow my noble friend to deal with the regulations and the order at a reasonable time?

Lord Carter

My Lords, I am not completely briefed on all that has taken place on all the attempts to find a date. I understand that on the first date that they might have been taken my noble friend Lady Blackstone was in Lisbon on government business. Another attempt was made to find a date convenient for the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch. The noble Baroness says "no", but I understood that that was the case. They have to be dealt with today because they come into force tomorrow. I thought that an attempt had been made to find a time that was mutually convenient.

To avoid having a very long dinner hour this evening—to take the regulations and the order in the dinner hour with the Unstarred Question—with the help of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, for which I am extremely grateful, it was agreed to find time at the end of today's business. I do not think that there is any need for today's business to take exceptionally long. As I said, on the third Committee day we had 30 groups of amendments—exactly the same number as today—and we rose at 10 o'clock.

On Question, Motion agreed to.