International Criminal Court (Hansard, 29 June 2000)

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, the legislation to enable ratification of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court will be published as soon as practicable in this parliamentary Session, and introduced as soon as the parliamentary timetable allows.

§ Lord Goodhart
My Lords, I am grateful for the fact that the legislation will be published. However, given that the treaty requires 30 ratifications, can the Minister say how many countries have already ratified the treaty? Is it not essential that this country, especially in view of the fact that we are one of the five permanent members of the Security Council, should set an example to other countries by ratifying the treaty as soon as possible? Is it reasonable, therefore, to expect that the Bill will be brought forward early in the next Session? Further, would it perhaps be suitable for this legislation to be dealt with in the Moses Room, as that would enable it to become law sooner?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I can tell the noble Lord that 12 countries have ratified the treaty to date. Of course, it would be wholly inappropriate for me to say anything as to when the legislation will be introduced. However, I can certainly commend to the House some of the comments made by the noble Lord. If, as I believe, there is unanimity in this House on the matter, I am sure that we would all wish this particular Bill Godspeed.

§ Lord Archer of Sandwell
My Lords, can my noble, friend the Minister confirm that it continues to be the policy of the Government to maintain inviolate the existing text of the treaty and to persuade the American Government—if we can—that, if they have nothing to regret, they have nothing to fear?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I can certainly confirm that Her Majesty's Government are robust in their support of the International Criminal Court and that we shall continue to do all that we can to persuade our American colleagues that the text is an appropriate one with which they can concur. We shall continue to talk with them because it is of great importance that they should feel able to support the ICC in due course.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the proposals put forward by the Americans are unacceptable? Therefore, will the Government take the lead not only in persuading our other allies to reject 1065 those proposals but also, if they do come before the preparatory committee, in ensuring that they are rejected?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, it is right to tell your Lordships' House that Her Majesty's Government have some concerns about the way in which the USA is approaching this proposal; and, indeed, we are discussing the matter with those concerned in some detail. The preparatory conference is taking place at present and, obviously, such matters are still under consideration. I can reassure the House that the Government's commitment to this Bill and to the ICC remains firm.

§ Lord Lloyd of Berwick
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that if the court had been up and running earlier many of the problems that arose in the Pinochet case would have been resolved?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I do not know whether the court could have been up and running so quickly, but these are issues that we hope will be amenable to being dealt with by the ICC in the future. Indeed, there would be great benefit in that development.

§ Lord Lamont of Lerwick
My Lords, before we establish a new criminal court, would it not be advisable to be absolutely satisfied with the existing ad hoc tribunals, especially those in relation to Rwanda and Yugoslavia? Can the Minister tell the House whether the Government regard it as satisfactory that part of the financing for these bodies should come from the private sector? Is that really acceptable for a court? Further, do not the Government have to be clear about their own attitude to international law? For example, how will establishment of this court be compatible with a speech made by the Minister of State at the Foreign Office, Mr Peter Hain, in which he called for immunity from prosecution for war crimes for Jonas Savimbi?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, as regards financing, the ICC and how it will be financed will be a matter for discussion and consultation with all the parties. I am not able to give the noble Lord a definitive answer as to how that will be done. Indeed, it would not be appropriate for me to do so at this stage. I should point out that the other tribunals have had to engage in some very difficult issues and, so far, they have produced credible results.
We are moving to a different stage with the ICC. We hope that it will provide a certain cogency and coherence that has not been present before. We are hopeful that such matters will become a little easier to resolve once the ICC is up and running. I can tell the noble Lord that our own attitude towards international law is absolutely clear. Mr Muvunyi has been arrested and is awaiting trial. He will be transferred, as is appropriate, in due course.