Austria (Hansard, 27 June 2000)

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, the measures taken regarding Austria are not a European Union action; they have been implemented by Austria's European Union partners on an individual, bilateral basis. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and my noble friend Lady Scotland have made clear on many occasions, we continue to expect the Austrian Government to fulfil their commitments to European values and obligations, and to combat all forms of discrimination.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply. Perhaps I may ask two supplementary questions. First, can she tell the House which other nation in the world has been subjected to the kind of measures that we, with our European allies, have taken against Austria? Secondly, does she not agree that, whatever one may think of the political situation in that country, it is a classic example of the disadvantages of PR?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, the relevance of what happens with the rest of the world is not apposite; we are talking about 15 countries which are members of the European Union. There is a 765 difference between how we react to something that happens with one of those governments when compared to anywhere else in the world. As to the noble Lord's second point, no, I do not agree for one minute that this has anything to do with proportional representation.

§ Lord Janner of Braunstone
My Lords, can my noble friend give the House an assurance that the Government will maintain their present attitude towards the Austrian Government as long as a former right-hand person of Haider is their Vice-Chancellor and while they retain members of their very extremist Right-wing party in government?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
Yes, my Lords. It is worth reminding the House that we are not talking about a party with Right-wing economic theories but about a party that was led by a man who, when addressing an army war veteran meeting in Austria—which included Waffen SS—described the Waffen SS as decent men of character; and who also, in a speech to the Carinthian Parliament, praised the orderly employment polices of the Third Reich. It is important to he clear about what caused such offence to the other members of the European Union.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, the Government were among the more reluctant assenters to these sanctions against Austria; after all, this is a very sharp domestic interference in the internal affairs of another state. If we are in favour of liberal democracy, we have to tolerate the choices of other democratic governments, even when they are not entirely what we would like. As to PR versus the coalition front, Austria suffered a grand coalition for too long. Jobs were divided among the Conservative and Socialist parties—and that seems a very bad thing in any democratic country. However, does the Minister accept that there has to come a point where these sanctions will be withdrawn? Does she agree that, provided the Austrian Government do not offend against any of the aspects of the Treaty of Rome—and they have not yet done so—the sanctions will, in time, have to be ended?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, the 14 European Union countries are united in their policy towards Austria. We have had, and continue to have, serious and intense discussions with the other 13 EU countries on a bilateral basis on this issue. Five months is too short a time to make a definitive judgment of the performance of the Austrian Government, but we are reflecting on a way forward.

§ Viscount Cranborne
My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House what assessment the Government have made of the impact of the policies of the 14 on public opinion in Austria? In the light of Hugo Young's column in the Guardian this morning, what proposals do the Government have for getting off the hook upon which they have impaled themselves?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, I have not read this morning's Guardian. I do not consider it unbriefed not to have read all the newspapers. I do not think for one minute that the Government have impaled themselves on a hook. As to the question of the impact on public opinion in Austria, as the noble Viscount knows, it is difficult to gauge public opinion anywhere. However, the fact remains that the Austrian Freedom Party is still in third place in the opinion polls. So it has not improved its position in any way, if that is the point that the noble Viscount is trying to make.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, following the intervention of my noble friend Lord Cranborne, is the noble Baroness aware that, if she had read the Guardian this morning, she would have seen that this whole saga is described as a spiralling diplomatic disaster? While we all regard the views of Mr Haider as repulsive, has not this whole saga shown up an enormous political ineptitude, and a bit of childishness to boot? Is not the sensible position for the Government now to tell their EU partners that this is leading to disaster; that the sanctions should be ended; and that Austria should be brought into the company of the EU again and dealt with as a mature nation that has done nothing wrong, and whose original repulsive leader has disappeared to Carinthia as a governor and left the party?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, I do not understand how the noble Lord, Lord Howell, can say that the whole House finds the views of Mr Haider so repulsive, and then go on to think that it was—

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, I said that the whole House finds Mr Haider's views repulsive. I did not say that—

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
Exactly, my Lords. His "views" instead of his "opinions" repulsive. I do not understand how anyone can say that on the one hand and then, on the other, think that it was not important for the other members of the European Union to send the strongest possible signal to Austria about what they thought. As the noble Lord knows, the use of the word "sanctions" is not correct. Diplomatic measures were taken against Austria, which were well understood by that country as signalling the disapproval of the rest of the European Union. I think that was absolutely right and proper.