§ 11 p.m.
§ Viscount CranborneMy Lords, before the Minister moves the next Motion, perhaps the House will allow me to intervene. I could move for the adjournment of the House under Standing Order 43, but I am reluctant to do so. As a substitute, perhaps I may make a gentle plea to the Government Chief Whip, who I know is the most reasonable of men.
We have had an extremely long day. It is very nearly 11 o'clock at night. We are about to consider a highly controversial piece of legislation. It is perhaps a small piece of legislation but it has important constitutional implications. 1 suggest that it was always odd that we should be asked to consider, rather suddenly, this particular piece of legislation on the penultimate day before rising for the Summer Recess. It is even more curious that the Government appear to be insisting that, at this late hour on this penultimate day, we should pursue this business.
Does the Chief Whip agree with me that there do not appear to be a large number of Members of the Dail queuing up to become Members of another place between now and 27th September? Would it not be much more reasonable to suggest through the usual channels that we consider the Second Reading of this piece of legislation after allowing other Members of this House, who have probably sensibly gone off on holiday by now, to look at it and consider it with more care? That would also enable us to get home a little earlier this evening.
What is the hurry for this Bill? I hope that the Chief Whip realises that I say this in a conciliatory frame of mind. I am sure that the House will forgive me for raising the matter now. If the Chief Whip saw the good sense of my argument, the time of the House that I have taken this evening would in fact save us time in the end.
§ Lord Molyneaux of KilleadMy Lords, perhaps I may briefly support what the noble Viscount has said. It may be that the Chief Whip and the Government Front Bench are not aware of the fact that the Bill completed all of its stages in the other place on 26th January, so if they have not been in any hurry over the past six months, why are we rushing now when we shall have ample time to 704 consider it later? We could give an undertaking not to oppose the Bill at any great length if it could be fitted in even on the first day back.
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, I am in some difficulty. There was certainly no intention that the Bill should start at this hour. Your Lordships know what happened today. We spent one and a half hours on a debate which did not add to the dignity of this House. Anybody watching that debate would not feel that it added to the lustre of the House or to the dignity of our debates. I shall make sure that a number of noble Lords who took part in that debate are made aware of the very wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Eames, in relation to the contrast between filing cabinets and lives.
I have to choose my words with great care. I was asked within the past 10 days if I would ensure that this Bill received a Second Reading before the Summer Recess. I ask your Lordships not to press me on that. It involves the situation in Northern Ireland. Therefore I found space for it. It was agreed through the usual channels that it should be taken this evening.
The only thing I can do—this may not suit your Lordships because everyone is here to debate the Bill—is put it on tomorrow after the Finance Bill, if it is felt that that is better than starting it now. I was very concerned this afternoon when the earlier debate took place. I made arrangements through the Clerk of the Parliaments and Hansard to make sure that the House could handle the reporting and so forth of the Bill.
Everyone is here to debate the Bill. I am sorry about what has happened. It is not really my fault. There is no way that I could ever have anticipated—I doubt whether the noble Viscount as Leader of the House could have done so either—that a debate of one hour and 40 minutes would take place on the Offices Committee report. For all those reasons, I ask noble Lords not to press me.
I was asked last week by colleagues whether I could ensure, as part of the choreography of the situation in Northern Ireland, that this Bill received its Second Reading before the Summer Recess. I undertook to do that. The only offer I can make is to put it on tomorrow after the Finance Bill. But as your Lordships are all here and probably will not want to come back tomorrow, I feel that we should continue with the Bill this evening.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, before the Chief Whip sits down, is it not contrary to our normal procedures to continue sitting after 11 p.m. on a Thursday when we are sitting at 11 a.m. on a Friday?
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, that is a convenience and a convention regarding the staff. This can be done, as long as arrangements are made; I was careful to do this through the Clerk of the Parliaments and the Editor of Hansard. Perhaps I may remind noble Lords that the House sat until 5.10 a.m. on Tuesday morning and resumed at 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon.