"Touchstone Issues" Leak (Hansard, 19 July 2000)

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, steps are being taken to investigate the leak to the press of the Prime Minister's memorandum. The noble Lord will be aware that, in order to safeguard the effectiveness of both the investigation and the security arrangements in place to prevent leaks, it has been the practice of successive governments not to disclose information about how leak investigations are conducted.

§ Lord Roberts of Conwy
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and congratulate him on his reply. He is quite clearly above suspicion. But is the Minister aware that as this leak of the Prime Minister's confessional is one 1012 of five leaks to date this month, there are some people who think that the leak is a new form of twisted spin? Can he give the House an assurance that this leak was in fact a genuine leak which the Government regret rather than a press hand-out, in which the Government delight?

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, my colleagues are whispering that all spins are twisted. I think noble Lords perhaps appreciate my background. Before I came into this House, when people mentioned "spinners" to me I thought it was a pop group from the sixties. Although we make light of it at the moment, it is a very serious issue. I know that the noble Lord would wish to support the Government on this issue and to join us in condemning the circumstances surrounding the leak. I should also mention that the Government take the question of security very seriously. All government departments are responsible for ensuring that stringent security measures are in place. Where there has been a leak of sensitive information, inquiries will be undertaken to establish who is responsible.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House when a leak inquiry last identified and disciplined the leaker? Does he think that it may perhaps be better to take further action on the Freedom of Information of Bill and publish the whole darn lot of these things? It would probably be much to the Government's advantage to get it all over with on a regular basis so that Ministers cannot stab each other in the back in the press so easily.

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, I simply say to the noble Lord that successive governments have developed policies similar to that which exists at the moment in relation to leaks of this nature. I can assure the House that they are not routine and are not undertaken on a routine basis. While it may not be possible in some cases to identify the individuals responsible, the inquiry process itself has a guarding effect and raises security awareness within departments. Where leaks occur, the Government will take whatever measures are necessary to ensure that the culprits are found.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, perhaps I can help the noble Lord. I think that the answer to the question of my noble friend Lord Tebbit is "never"—at least that is the experience of those of us who were in government. Is it true that a game of pass-the-parcel was played in the office of the Leader of the House to see who would answer this Question and that the music was rigged by the Minister's elders—and, dare I say, betters—to make sure that the parcel stopped with him? Furthermore, has he read the leaked memo? Has he read in particular the sentence, It is bizarre that any government I lead should be seen as anti-family"? Can I tempt the Minister to agree with me that what is bizarre is that any Prime Minister of the United Kingdom should ever write such self-pitying guff?

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, as to the noble Lord's point about me answering the Question, the Cabinet 1013 Office Minister, for whom I am deputising, is away on official business of a long-standing nature. I simply make one point in response to the noble Lord's comments—that is, that it would seem that the leaks issue is orchestrated against the Government in order to deflect attention from what the Government are doing at the moment. I am quite certain that many noble Lords would rather debate today the £43 billion spending review that the Government announced yesterday than this issue.

§ Lord Haskel
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that perhaps there is not a leaker; perhaps the culprit is a hacker?

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, that is certainly a consideration we should take on board. The Government have announced that an investigation will take place. We are not aware that there is any connection between the recent graffiti on the Cabinet Office website and the latest leak. However, I can assure my noble friend that the inquiry will explore a full range of possibilities, of which this will be one.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, in view of the apparent dearth of plumbers in Westminster, could some of the £43 billion be spent in training them?

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, I am sorry, I did not quite catch the noble Countess's question.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, in view of the apparent shortage of plumbers around Westminster, could some of the £43 billion be spent on training them?

§ Lord Burlison
My Lords, I thank the noble Countess for her question. I realise that there is a pun in there somewhere and that there should be one in the reply. However, having said that, the Government take the leaks very seriously. Whether we need plumbers or training in this direction I am not sure, but certainly the Government take the issue of establishing responsibility for these leaks very seriously indeed.