COMMONS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 18 July 2000)

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 198. In speaking to this amendment I shall speak also to Amendment No. 200.
987 These are technical changes to the definitions at the end of the Bill but are extremely important to the workings of the legislation. The amendments deal with the definition of personal care used in the Bill.
The definition of personal care is important to the effect of the requirement for certain establishments and agencies to register with the national care standards commission. Personal care is defined in the Registered Homes Act 1984 as, care which includes assistance with bodily functions where such assistance is required". That definition has been interpreted, following a High Court judgment—Harrison v. Cornwall—as meaning that personal care could include emotional or psychiatric care as well as physical care.
The intention of the original definition in the Bill was to reflect that interpretation and not to end up with either a wider or narrower definition than the one that applies now. However, as your Lordships may be aware, there has been a great deal of concern as to whether the definition in Clause 100 would extend the definition more widely than currently applies. The fear has come in the main from those who provide sheltered housing schemes and similar arrangements. Their concern is that they would find themselves required to register as care homes. A similar point was raised about this definition by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury.
In our discussions it has never been our intention to extend the definition, nor to require organisations such as sheltered housing schemes to register as care homes. We endeavoured to reassure people about this. But one has to record that there has been considerable worry and it has particularly focused on possible loss of DSS benefits. It has become clear that an amendment to the Bill would be necessary to provide the necessary reassurance.
The reference to "advice and encouragement" has therefore been removed from the definition through Amendment No. 198 and a further amendment, Amendment No. 200, has been made to replicate the provisions of the Registered Homes Act 1984. My honourable friend Mr John Hutton explained fully the intention behind these amendments in Commons Committee, and in particular made clear that the interpretation set out in the Harrison v. Cornwall judgment was intended to apply. We believe that this has now settled the concerns on this issue and I hope that noble Lords will be willing to accept the amendments.
Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 198.—(Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.)

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, without penetrating too deeply into the legal thickets of this amendment, we will take the Minister's word that taking out "advice and encouragement" from the statute but essentially having it implied by a case is a 988 more satisfactory solution. I confess that, even though I am a lawyer, I am not half-way to understanding why that should be so.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I have extensive notes which I desisted from repeating. Perhaps it would be helpful for me to write to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, with that information. It may make it a little clearer.

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, that would be helpful. The Minister is threatening me with a long speech which, without being discourteous, I am sure none of us wishes to hear. But in the context of discussions on personal and nursing care, which I am sure we will all have as a result of hearing the Government's response to the Royal Commission, that would help us to clarify the situation.
In closing on this amendment, and since there is no further opportunity, I thank the Minister on behalf of myself and my noble friend Lady Barker for his conduct on this Bill. We have had our disagreements. We had a few votes on the Bill, though not many. In the main we have been united in wanting to see this Bill through and its purposes, which are extremely important, fulfilled. I thank the Minister and his ministerial colleagues for their courtesy and great flexibility throughout the passage of the Bill.

§ Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, I should like to associate myself and my noble friend Lord Howe with what the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has just said.

§ Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, on behalf of my colleagues and myself, perhaps I may say how much I appreciate those very kind remarks. This Bill is a tremendous Bill, and one that will lead not only to very great improvement both in terms of the standards of care for many people in this country but also—and we should not forget this—in enhancing the status and quality of social workers and other people in social care.
It has been a delight to take this Bill through your Lordships' House. There has been a great deal of consensus. I am most grateful for all the contributions that have been made. The Bill has, undoubtedly, been enormously improved.
On Question, Motion agreed to.