Guide Dogs: Carriage by Taxi (Hansard, 17 July 2000)

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, Section 37 of the Disability Discrimination Act covers the carriage of guide dogs and hearing dogs in licensed taxis. There are no powers in that Act to cover private hire cars. We shall be starting consultation this week on our proposals for implementation of Section 37. A copy of the consultation document will be placed in the Library.

§ Lord Addington
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. However, does he accept that in many parts of the country if one needs to hire a driven vehicle, one is restricted to using a private hire firm? If those hire firms decide to ban people who have with them a dog for sight or hearing support, that person is effectively restricted to their home or may be forced to pay higher sums of money for the service. Is not the Act therefore effectively condoning a form of discrimination?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, there is much in what the noble Lord says; but the fact is that the powers in the 583 DDA do not at the moment cover private hire cars. There will shortly be consultation in relation to private hire cars in London, but the situation is as I described it in the rest of the country.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, I am astonished at my noble friend's reply. Does he agree that it is obvious that blind people need to be accompanied by their guide dogs and it is therefore amazing that Section 37 of the Disability Discrimination Act has not already been implemented, especially bearing in mind that the Act itself was enacted in 1995? Does my noble friend recall that the Government stated last year that action would be taken to implement Section 37 early in the new year? He now says that considered discussions will start this week. Can he assure us that those discussions will not be protracted and that there will be no further slippage? Blind people are suffering as a consequence of lack of proper regulation.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I hear what my noble friend says in relation to the non-coverage of private hire vehicles. Nevertheless, it remains the fact that we have no powers to issue regulations covering private hire vehicles. My noble friend is right that we originally hoped to start this consultation earlier in the year. Indeed, I indicated to the House that we hoped to start it in March. It has taken slightly longer because of the need to address the issue of medical exemptions on this front. However, the consultation document requires the medical exemptions to be sorted by November this year and the full regulations to come into force in March next year. There will be no delay in that.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, the initial reply from the noble Lord indicates that the situation has not changed since his Written Answer to me on 25th May. Does he accept that a substantial and important part of the Disability Discrimination Act applies to transport? That was strongly advocated and supported in this House especially by our mobile Bench; in other words, by the "wheelchair squadron".

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, that is why we prioritised the regulations covering buses, coaches and railway carriages. The regulations therefore cover much of the public transport system already. The next stage is for them to apply to taxis.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, is the Minister aware that among the few private hire firms that carry dogs, it is common practice to apply extra charges? In one case which recently came to my attention, the increase was 20 per cent. Will the Minister consider that for those who are on benefit that may be a severe imposition on an already limited income?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, one would have to look clearly at the individual circumstances and the 584 charging regimes that apply within those private hire companies. But, on the face of it, I agree with the noble Earl.

§ Baroness Fookes
My Lords, can the Minister explain why the consultations have to be so complicated? They seem quite simple to me.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, one of the lessons one learns from sitting on these Benches is that consultation is never simple. It always appears simple at the beginning, but ends up being extremely complicated. We are talking of a consultation period of approximately three months, which is normal in such circumstances. That will cover all those who are interested in these regulations.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, can the Minister say why it has taken this Government three years to move towards consultation which, if it is going to take only three months, could have been done long ago?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, as I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, we prioritised applying regulations to buses, coaches and other areas of the transport system. We have to do this sequentially, and we are now addressing the taxi problem.

§ Lord Addington
My Lords, can the Minister give us an assurance that in future when the Government consider transport policy they will consider whole journeys which cover more than one type of transport? We are talking here of a broken link in the transport chain. Can the Minister assure us that in future all the various links in a journey will be brought together as a whole?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, when the noble Lord considers the Transport Bill later today and the transport plan later this week, he will find that we are addressing transport problems in a holistic way and in a way that is of benefit to the disabled members of our community.